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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 July 2025
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Displaying 1381 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 26 October 2023

Christine Grahame

Under the Scottish Government’s vaccination programme, I recently had the Covid and the flu vaccines at a very busy, efficient and, indeed, friendly vaccine centre. However, that is anecdotal. Will the First Minister please provide an update on vaccination take-up?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Christine Grahame

Thank you, convener. I promise that I will not give evidence, although it is terribly tempting to do so. I shall have my day.

I want to challenge the minister on one or two things—you knew that I would. You said that the existing code of practice is functioning. If that code is effective, how is it that so many people are still buying online and puppy factory farms are still very successful?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Christine Grahame

Do you accept that my intention with the bill is to try to tackle the very supply that you have named through education? Do you accept that that is what the bill is about? If we can educate people through provisions such as those in section 2, we will at least have a better go at preventing the misery that some puppies go through than by trying to do it by catching those individuals at the other end of the process.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Christine Grahame

Codes of practice are not primary legislation, but, by putting such a code in primary legislation, you can bed it into the public conscience that it is, to put it in common parlance, the law, whereas people do not see codes of practice as the law. Do you accept that?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Christine Grahame

Thank you, convener. That is very kind. Do you accept, minister, that I have, from the previous bill that I proposed but did not proceed with because of the pressures of Covid, moved from providing for a mandatory regulatory scheme to making it a discretionary chance for the Government to introduce it? That is explained in the explanatory notes. With current inflationary pressures and everything else, I understand that we do not want to burden national or local government, so the scheme is discretionary.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Christine Grahame

I will move on. I accept that you can have a register, but the bill tries to specify some things in that register. Section 8(3) states:

“The Scottish Ministers may by regulations make provision”.

It is fairly flexible for Government and leaves it in the current context.

I accept the data protection issues, and have thought about all that. The wording of section 8(4)(g) is:

“provision for or in connection with public or other access to registration information”.

Do you accept that the Government has far more resources at hand than I have to consider the legal requirements for a register to give data protection cover, if I can put it in that way, to the transferrer and the transferee?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Christine Grahame

The only reason that I raised it, convener, is because the minister raised it.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Christine Grahame

Just to go back to compliance, this is, as we all know, very discretionary—it is not mandatory. For example, section 10(1) says:

“The Scottish Ministers may by regulations make provision for or in connection with securing compliance with regulations”.

Also, you are worried about people inadvertently ending up being caught up in some proceedings, given a fine or something, but section 10(2)(b) recommends that

“That provision may in particular include ... provision for the enforcement other than by way of proceedings for an offence of any provision of the regulations”.

Does the minister accept that, if all that was given was a warning to somebody that they should have had a puppy registered, it could leave things open for somebody masquerading as an innocent person who has been caught out who is actually either being used by criminal gangs or part of a criminal gang?

We must accept that there are options other than by way of proceedings. As I have said, the regulations are for the Government—they are just guidance for it.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Christine Grahame

My final question is about section 11. You asked how we know that what we are proposing will work. Would you accept that section 11 will improve public awareness and understanding of the relevant regulatory regimes? Its purpose is to ensure that people understand that the supplying of a dog that is less than 12 months old requires

“registration under regulations made under section 8”.

Do you accept that, in the context of the entire bill, the purpose of section 11 is not about raising awareness before registration is required, but about ensuring that, if we were to proceed with registration, the public would be aware that there was a registration scheme and that it would, in a way, be for the public to police it? If someone was not registered, people could check that out.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Christine Grahame

It would depend on what was on the database. I put it to you that, if there were no registration number, they would not proceed, because it would be a requirement in law that the puppy or dog be registered. They would say, “It’s not registered. What’s that all about?”