Seòmar agus comataidhean

The cabinet secretary and I had a visit to see the successful hospital at home service in the Borders and the impact that it has had in freeing up hospital beds. As of May 2025, NHS Borders has created a virtual capacity of 20 beds. However, the availability of the service, which operates from the base at Borders general hospital near Melrose, is currently determined by its ability to travel safely and effectively to patients within the day. That means that those who wish to use the service in, for example, Tweeddale are excluded. Is there any way round that, for example, by using Hay Lodge hospital in Peebles as a local delivery centre?

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app would not connect. I would have voted no.

I come to this debate from a slightly different angle. The war in Ukraine, the vagaries of a flood of Trump executive orders on tariffs, and, indeed, the folly of the UK coming out of the EU, despite Scotland voting to remain by 62 per cent, have all exposed the fragility of the UK economy, particularly UK manufacturing capacity. That flows from decades of successive UK Governments, at least from the 1960s onwards, slipping happily into an importing nation, at least of goods, and relying on being a service economy. That vulnerability will take major change at a UK level to undo.

I recall when the label on goods “Made in China” and “Made in Taiwan” provoked scorn and even laughter. The same goes for Skoda and Lada. We are not laughing now, are we? Practically every device that we use has Chinese components. As for Taiwan, which I visited many years ago, it is impressive. With so little in the way of natural resources and with the looming threat of China just across the water, it has invested in research and development with great success. To protect itself from patent theft, it invests just as heavily in legal protections and it licenses the production that flows from its patents.

Across my Borders and Midlothian constituency, the wool industry is now a shadow of its former self and most of the jobs have gone, although its products are of high quality. Coal mining in Newtongrange, Gorebridge and Penicuik are consigned to the museum and memorials. Penicuik’s famous paper-making site has been redeveloped into residential housing. Those industries all sustained entire communities.

Some of the change was the result of the natural evolution of the international manufacturing landscape, and I accept that. However, we—that is, the UK—missed the boat in anticipating modern manufacturing requirements. Take, for example, the many wind farm developments across my constituency and elsewhere. Which companies manufacture the turbines? I understand that the two main manufacturers are Vestas, which is an American company that is based in Portland, and Siemens Gamesa of Madrid, Spain.

Siemens Gamesa’s company history states:

“40 years ago, we saw limitless potential in wind, from powering factories to illuminating homes around the globe. Our technological leadership has accompanied us all these years, from our first wind turbines to our powerful offshore projects ... From the very first wind generators to the world’s largest wind farms.”

Forty years ago, the company saw limitless potential. What was the UK doing then?

That illustrates my point. The nine largest public owners of wind farms in Scotland are foreign. That includes the Danish wind company Ørsted, the Swedish power company Vattenfall, the Norwegian Statkraft and Munich’s municipal energy company. The UK Government does not own one. To rub salt into the wound, we have high energy costs domestically and commercially. In Norway, although 69 per cent of wind farms are owned by foreign companies, Norwegian companies at least own 31 per cent.

The UK Government failed Scotland in the 1960s and 1970s by selling off the oil and gas industry and failing to build from its oil and gas revenues something similar to the extraordinary Norwegian Government pension fund global, which now amounts to $1.7 trillion. Members will say that we are where we are. Indeed, but it is worth saying how we got where we are and whether lessons have been learned by the UK Government. After all, it has the economic power; that is not here. I would say that it has not learned lessons.

Support is needed, but let us be clear that the Scottish Government can only tinker at the edges. Given the huge constraints of devolution, we should not say otherwise.

I return to the example of Taiwan, from which we can learn to invest in and value research and development in our universities, as Gordon MacDonald referenced in his comments. We can also look to protect our produce with the “Made in Scotland” label, which has worldwide value. Those are just two areas where the Scottish Government can make fundamental interventions.

However, to be clear, it is successive UK Governments, with their substantial reserved powers, that have failed—as I hope that I have illustrated over the decades—to provide the UK, let alone Scotland, with an industrial strategy.

Across Scotland, rural nurseries—including seven in the Scottish Borders—are threatened with so-called mothballing. Many of them are physically attached to primary schools, such as those in Channelkirk and Walkerburn in my constituency. They are just through a doorway, so that the school and nursery are actually as one. Children have the same teacher and headteacher, and nursery children share mealtimes with the primary pupils, so transition and integration are simply not an issue—the children just move next door. It is my belief, for educational and social reasons as well as because of the need to sustain the primary schools and the wider community, that in such circumstances, those particular nurseries require added protection.

I am pleased to hear what the First Minister says. Given what I have said, in the review of the guidance, will he consider including additional criteria for retaining nurseries that form part of the school?

To ask the First Minister, in light of the reported issues arising from proposed rural nursery closures or mothballing, including the potential impact on the sustainability of rural communities and the operation of primary schools, whether the Scottish Government will review the relevant legislation and the guidance on criteria for protecting rural primary schools from closure. (S6F-04008)

I, too, congratulate Jackie Dunbar on securing the debate.

Global intergenerational week is aimed at inspiring individuals, groups, organisations and Governments to connect people of all ages, especially the younger and older generations, in order to share good practice and take opportunities to come together, enjoy each other’s company, and make friendships that cross the age divide. That can happen through physical activities, chatting, gardening and baking—although I should say that I am quite hopeless at baking.

Some of that already happens quite naturally through grandparenting and interaction with elderly relatives and neighbours. It can be about cuddling in to granny or grandad, telling a story from a book or simply sharing memories of the past, embellished—in my case, at least—for dramatic or romantic effect, or even both. Those are special moments and they give parents a break. Walking hand in hand with a young one chattering away, and granny getting out and about instead of being sofa bound, are the stuff of abiding memories.

A benefit of being Granny Scotland—my soubriquet—is going to films that I really want to see but for which I need an alibi. That alibi is the granddaughter who is at my side while we watch “Frozen” on the big screen, with compulsory burgers; who, while I simply lounge on the sand at Portobello beach, paddles about and keeps checking to see if I am watching her with approval; or who shares a humungous banana split with me. I remember having my face painted as a cat’s on new year’s day and then returning home, forgetting that I was still sporting the cat face and wondering why the world was smiling at me as I passed by.

In some cultures—for example, in China—the elderly are respected and even revered, just for being elderly. Indeed, with my own late granny, we did as we were told. It was her hoose, so there were no mugs in her kitchen; there was a cheena cup and saucer, doilies, antimacassars and a three-tiered cake and sandwich stand. There was nothing less from a former lady’s maid—the daughter of a shepherd, who left school at 14. It was another world, but it is as clear in my memory as yesterday.

This sort of intergenerational activity can involve young ones coming in to care settings to share simple play and perhaps perform a song or two. Indeed, I have seen that at work in schools. It can involve lessons in social history, too. What was it like, say, growing up after the war with the remnants of rationing, or in the swinging 60s when mini-skirts were, dangerously, all the fashion and the young rebelled against the older generation? By the way, I come free of charge.

It can involve a young person showing someone older, such as me, how to use TikTok or even the mysteries of the internet. It can also be about using emojis in the right place at the right time for the right reason. After all, we all remember David Cameron getting caught, misusing “LOL”.

All of that activity should also remind the younger generation that we, the older people, have a value and should be valued—that we have had, and still have, a life. It is important that we understand and tolerate one another. Age discrimination against the older generation is alive and well—as an octogenarian, I can testify to that—but so is age discrimination against the young. The untrammelled energy of youth can be annoying but so, too, can the slower pace of the elderly, irritating those who are young, for whom life is in a hurry.

Tolerance and understanding are, therefore, a good prescription. That is why one-to-one encounters, starting with those personal encounters between the younger and older generations, are important; they shatter misperceptions and, what is more, enhance respect and understanding of both the old and the young.

I thank the cabinet secretary for his answer, with which I agree. Recent analysis by the office of the chief economic adviser estimated that Brexit trade barriers could impact Scotland’s economy by £4 billion. With the unreliability of the Trump pronouncements on tariffs, which are almost daily, does the cabinet secretary agree that we were better off in the EU than we are out of it?

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will change its policy position in relation to an independent Scotland seeking to rejoin the EU, in light of the potential impact of US tariffs on the UK and the EU. (S6O-04551)

I endorse every tribute to Christina McKelvie from across the chamber. She was a lovely and honest-to-goodness person. I send my condolences to Keith Brown and to her sons.

I congratulate Liz Smith on the bill. I know how much work goes into a member’s bill and how much it depends on the drive and determination of the member. Such bills are very personal and are usually on an issue close to the member’s heart—this one certainly is. Liz Smith’s retiral next year will be a huge loss to the Conservative benches and, indeed, to Parliament.

I have visited Broomlee outdoor education centre on the edge of West Linton in my constituency on several occasions. It sits in some 30 acres of land, with a small river for raft building and some woodland, and it provides a range of activities. It is within easy reach of the Pentland hills, so it is a great base for walking and hiking, as well as for mountain biking up the Tweed valley. There are three accommodation blocks, with a capacity of up to 131.

It has an 85-year-old history of providing residential outdoor experiences for young people, which began when it took in evacuees during the blitz of the second world war. To this day it continues to provide life-changing experiences in the outdoors for children who are facing the pressures and anxiety of a post-lockdown world, coupled with the difficulties of a cost of living crisis. Most of those children are from less-well-off areas.

The Broomlee centre is part of a charity. The centre manager, Richard Gerrish, has written this to me about the bill:

“This issue is clearly very close to our hearts for all sorts of reasons, but mostly because we have witnessed first-hand the ever-increasing numbers of children from economically disadvantaged areas who are missing out on these valuable experiences as the financial burden is passed on to parents and the cost-of-living crisis bites harder and harder.”

I start by speaking about Broomlee because so much of what it provides is reflected in the purposes of the bill—good stuff so far. I could see the Broomlee centre providing just such an experience. I had my own such experiences many moons ago, as a working-class child on my first time away, with the girl guides camping at North Berwick, and later as a teenager on a fortnight retreat at Iona. From my distant youth to Broomlee today, not much has changed, even with the internet and mobile phones. North Berwick and Iona were pretty spartan, but that was part of the fun.

Those experiences live with you always. I recall many details of mine, from being washed out from the bell tent at North Berwick to sunshine and early mornings in the abbey at Iona. Therefore, I am right behind the purpose of the bill, but—and it is a big “but”—although the committee agrees to the general principles at paragraph 248 of the report, at paragraph 249 it outlines, rightly, substantial concerns on the financial aspects of the bill.

I go back to Broomlee. The various cabins, which look like Nissen huts, were built 85 years ago and desperately need upgrading. Any heating that is in them goes through the roof and the walls. I emphasise that the staff are full of heart, enthusiasm and experience. Even now, though, they find that accessing funding is tough. Other funding routes are not readily available. Although I fully support the principles of the bill, it is an understatement to say that there is a lot of work to be done on meeting the realistic costs for places such as Broomlee. That includes finding capital funding as well as facing the fact that many costs are recurring and will undoubtedly rise with the cost of living.

The member has suggested various funding routes, and I hope that they work. However, the member has to nail those down before a statutory duty is placed on the schools, and ultimately on the Government, to offer this provision from a fixed and allocated budget.

We all want to spend to save, but the funds have to be taken from all the firefighting that we have to do. That has been the dilemma across this Parliament for my 26 years here.

I hope that the member and the Scottish Government can find a way to progress this worthy proposal. It might require amendments. I had to substantially amend at least part of my Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill in order for it to proceed, by removing financial obligations that could not be met in the current climate by local authorities.

With those caveats, unlike the Government, I will support the bill at stage 1. I congratulate the member and wish her and the Government well on the bill and hope that they can resolve the financial difficulties.

I fully accept the position about local authorities, but capital funding will be needed by some of the existing providers, such as Broomlee, which is a charity, and I am not sure where that will come from. I wish that it could be done, but I want to see that nailed down.