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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 August 2025
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Displaying 451 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Christine Grahame

The major onus is on suppliers, as many of them are in business—some are not, but most of them are. There would be a duty on the Scottish Government to publicise the proposed code. There is also the certificate, which will require a change in engagement. We rarely say to people that, if they have read a code or the legislation, they need to sign something saying that they have read and understood it.

Engagement should be a process of saying, “You’re part of this.” Part of the issue that I want the public to understand is that they are the custodians and are policing the welfare of Scotland’s puppies and young dogs that come into the system. I go back to the fact that demand will change the nature of supply. My expectation is that informed demand—it is a horrible expression—will mean that the puppies that come through the system will change. People will say, “Wait a minute. I have seen the puppy online. I know that I can’t take it. I’m not supposed to do this. I don’t know who this person is.”

Alternatively, they might see somebody at a market who has some puppies in their van. The trouble is that people think that they are rescuing animals, but they are not. If you see a puppy in a distressed state with its big eyes and you think, “I’ll take it,” all that happens is that, in the conveyor belt of these factory farms, some bitch is being put through the system to produce more puppies. By signing the certificate, you become part of regulating and part of the system.

I think that that is good for owners. I get quite emotional about this because, due to my lifestyle, I cannot have a dog. I have gone through those tests myself and said, “I can’t do this,” because I have the cat and I am not there and all those things, including my age, which has to be taken into account. People have to go through that process and say to themselves, “I’ll be hard.” If they must, there are other ways of enjoying the company of dogs, such as fostering or going into pet shelters to take them for walks, but maybe it is not right for them to have a dog.

What distresses me is that, in the six years that I have been working on the issue, the system has got worse. If it had not got worse, I would have packed it in. I would not need to be arguing for change—I could leave it to the Government—but the point is that the Government has not changed the existing code. By introducing the bill and pushing the Government to put a new code through, we move the dial—to use that horrible expression.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Christine Grahame

Page 7 of the policy memorandum gives details on the current law and practice and how enforcement would be undertaken—that is why it is not necessary to put that into the bill.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Christine Grahame

Cluttered.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Christine Grahame

That is the point—the Government has not committed to amending the current code. I also dispute that suggestion. I could go out tomorrow and show people in Tesco that checklist of questions and I think that they would understand it. However, if I went out and showed them the full amended code, I think that they would go, “For goodness’ sake, I’m not reading 40 pages.”

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Christine Grahame

I do not quite follow your question.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Christine Grahame

I am sorry?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Christine Grahame

It could happen at stage 2, if someone wanted to add something that was within the bill’s ambit. Also, in preparing the code to go through—I have my letter to the DPLR Committee, in which I say that I would be content for it to undergo parliamentary scrutiny—there is an opportunity to add things to extend the purpose of the bill, such as educating and so on. It is a starting point that lays the groundwork.

10:15  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Christine Grahame

Are you referring to my letter to the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Christine Grahame

I am maligning you. In 2016, I raised the idea of having a national microchipping database, and the Government made a vague undertaking to look at that, but nothing has happened in all that time. I would love there to be a national microchipping database. It would solve an awful lot of problems. I will hand over to Roz Thomson to comment, but I think that it would be open to the Government to add that if it wanted to. It has not shown any inclination in that direction since 2016.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Christine Grahame

The acquirer must challenge the supplier—that is the point. Perhaps “challenge” is too strong a word, but they must question the supplier. I come back to the purpose of the legislation, which is to stop the casual emotional acquiring of puppies, which is not in the interest of the puppies or the people who acquire them. The purpose is to make them pause. The code, separated off, is simple and straightforward, because it is designed to educate the section of the public who are not being irresponsible but who just do not think long and hard enough. It might be that it is not the right thing for someone at that time but that, in a year’s time, it would be. That is what this is about.