Chamber and committees

This is stage 1 of the bill process. There are matters to do with how we amend and improve the legislation, but there are also matters that are more about policy and practice. We are currently engaged with providers and the sector to ensure that young people are given the best possible care, support and supervision. There are questions about what the best way is for young, vulnerable people to access on-going mental health support, and there are key issues about staff training.

To my knowledge and in my experience, the staff who operate in the secure estate are very well trained and they have a high skill base. However, we want to ensure that people—children, in particular—can access the right treatment at the right time. I give a commitment to look closely at the evidence that the committee has been provided with and at any recommendations that the committee subsequently makes in its report.

I will briefly add to that, Mr MacGregor. The children’s hearings system cannot operate after a child’s 18th birthday other than by exception, so there will continue to be a need for young offenders institutions. Again, at the discretion of the governor, young people can remain in a YOI until they are 23, before being transferred to an adult prison.

Given the view of His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons for Scotland on the inappropriate nature of young offenders institutions for children, if children are no longer committed to YOIs, that will give us opportunities to look at the care and support that is provided in them. I am also aware of the review on mental health services in YOIs.

Improvements can be made in various custodial establishments, but there are no plans to remove young offenders institutions because secure care—other than with the exceptions that the minister has outlined—applies for children up to the age of 18.

I will draw parallels with some of the innovations and changes that have been made in the women’s estate, because that probably provides a better comparator. In the women’s estate, there have been significant moves towards trauma-informed practice in custodial settings. The new women’s national facility will open in the summer, and two smaller units for women—one in Dundee, which I visited recently, and one in Glasgow—have already been established.

I am conscious of the questions about resources that members have raised, but there is an opportunity to think about the type of care, support and rehabilitation that we provide and how we better address reoffending in the context of a custodial environment.

With regard to the gravest of offences, the Crown Office and the Lord Advocate will, as with any case, have prosecutorial independence. In those gravest of cases, where the young person is progressed through the criminal justice system and, as can happen, a hefty custodial sentence is handed down, what happens in practice is that, if the young person is 16, they will spend the first few years of their sentence in secure accommodation, progress to a young offenders institution and then go to prison. What I would want to convey is that secure accommodation, with its levels of security, the intensive nature of supervision and other inputs, is an appropriate place for all child offenders who require such accommodation. That does not mean that they will not go on to serve the remainder of their sentence in the adult sector.

Under the Promise and the UNCRC commitments that the Government has made—there is, of course, cross-party support for implementing the Promise and for meeting our obligations under the UNCRC—all children who have offended and for whom a custodial disposal is required will, if they are under 18, go to secure accommodation in the first instance.

Secure accommodation is, of course, about providing support and interventions on the broadest range of matters. It is about providing age-appropriate, holistic support, and that should be provided for children who are being prepared to be reintegrated into the community post a secure placement. It is also very important that the proper aftercare arrangements are in situ. In addition, it is worth bearing in mind that a number of children go to secure for quite a short period. For children who are not spending two or three years in secure accommodation as part of a longer sentence, it is really important that the planning for their return to the community commences on admission.

That is a very live issue. Irrespective of where a young person is placed, if they are deprived of their liberty and are destined to be released, we need to set them up for success, not failure, on liberation. That also applies to adult prisoners.

Does the minister have anything to add to that?

Convener, the minister will make an opening statement.

A longer-term trend is the reduction in the number of 16 and 17-year-olds being incarcerated. Notwithstanding that, though, the fact is that, last year, nearly 1,000 under-25s were still imprisoned.

On your specific question, some profile work is being carried out on the under-25 population so that we can plan things as much as possible and try to anticipate future demand and expectation. Some work is also going on with Scotland Excel, which manages the current secure care contract, and that is a change from what was going on when I first became aware from a Government perspective of some of the issues in and around this policy area—

Convener, I will start on your question around children entering the criminal justice system. Given my justice portfolio, I am the lead cabinet secretary for the bill, while the minister is coming from the children and care perspective. The bill that is before the committee is very much about that intersection between how we meet the care needs and uphold the rights of children, and the context of the demands and expectations in and around our justice system.

If we—as a Government and, indeed, a country—are absolutely focused on reducing risk and reoffending among young people, it is imperative that we start by addressing their care needs because, unless their individual needs are addressed, that will be a barrier to addressing and managing risk. If we do not address and manage risk, we will not reduce reoffending. Therefore, it is imperative that the children’s hearings system and, in particular, the courts system have the widest range of disposals available to them.

With regard to barriers—which you specifically mentioned, convener—right now, children below the age of 18 can be placed in secure accommodation if they have been convicted of an offence, but there are existing legal barriers. For the purposes of the bill, and in accordance with the Promise and the UNCRC, the definition of a child is a person who is under the age of 18. The purpose of the bill is to ensure that all children, irrespective of their deeds, should be able to be placed in secure accommodation, notwithstanding that, when those children come of age, they can transfer to a young offenders institute and, depending on the length of their sentence, progress into the adult system.

That is a very important question. A range of colleagues across the Government have a direct interest in throughcare standards. You can well understand that, although they may be primarily a matter for justice ministers, there has to be an interest from housing ministers and other ministers who are focused on community services.

From my perspective, aftercare is one of the key issues. When people are released from custody, there is a period of transition, and any period of transition comes with risks. We know from all the evidence that, for some people, there can be a heightened risk of overdose when they are released from prison. That is why the peer-to-peer work that we are funding—which will be extended into all prisons—in respect of naloxone, for example, is so important.

I should perhaps have mentioned in my general update that we published on Monday our updated pathway from prison to rehab. I am a big advocate of prison to rehab. Rehab is not for everyone, but it should be there as an option for everyone for whom it is considered appropriate. We needed to do further work to ensure that both prison staff and people who are leaving custody are better prepared for what to expect when someone moves from a custodial setting into rehab.

It is about the continuity of connections with a community, even if the person been removed from that community. Planning for someone’s release should not be left to the last minute. I have a great personal interest in this area given that I have been a prison social worker in three establishments and my last post, prior to being elected to the Scottish Parliament, was at the state hospital. As with all planning, it needs to start not just early but at the point at which people start their sentences.