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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 May 2025
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Displaying 1041 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Angela Constance

I think that that predates my time as Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. I do not know the answer to that question, and I do not know whether the officials can say whether there was another working title. In general, it is not uncommon for proposed legislation that is being worked on internally to have a holding name, which is changed. However, I do not know whether the bill had a different name.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Angela Constance

The study suggested that, if one part of our verdict system was changed in isolation—if we moved from three to two verdicts—that would increase the prospect of convictions. The study demonstrated that it was imperative to reform the three aspects of our jury system in tandem, because they are all interrelated in one system.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Angela Constance

The research showed that a balanced approach is needed. The purpose of the reforms is to maintain confidence in the justice system by improving the experience for complainers and ensuring that the system is transparent and easily understood by everybody, because we all have a shared interest in it. We must also ensure the system’s integrity and take a balanced approach that protects the rights of the accused.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Angela Constance

Mr Swinney poses a logical question, which I will ask officials to comment on, too. I am not aware that the research threw up any such unintended consequences. I am also not aware, although I stand to be corrected, that any jurisdiction with a jury size of 12—we should bear it in mind that Scotland’s jury size of 15 is unusual—has significant issues of trials being abandoned because of problems with juries continuing. We will seek to double check that, but I am not aware of concerns.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Angela Constance

The jury research held some factors still so that it could explore the impact of different majorities, different jury sizes and moving from three to two verdicts—for example, it looked at mock juries in the context of three verdicts or two verdicts.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Angela Constance

I think that you have skipped over the evidence that, if we moved from three verdicts to two, mock juries were more likely to convict. Therefore, we would have to adapt and move from a simple to a qualified majority, in order to ensure that there is balance in the verdict system. That is a cornerstone of the system.

The reforms are designed around the experiential aspects of trials and to address issues of transparency and clarity; they are not designed to increase or decrease the number of convictions. The change in the majority is there to balance the change in the number of verdicts.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Angela Constance

That is what the research tells us.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Angela Constance

That will be for the head of the judiciary—the Lord Justice General. It is important that we are clear about that. The Lord Justice General will be able to appoint across the field and to appoint sheriffs as well as judges to the court on the basis of people’s experience, expertise and training.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Angela Constance

If Mr Swinney has specific propositions to make to strengthen the obligations on various actors and agencies that have a responsibility towards victims, we look forward to receiving those.

At the moment, we are taking a belt-and-braces approach. I am very conscious of the fact that I have a manifesto commitment to deliver on the establishment of a victims and witnesses commissioner. Of course, as an independent committee, you will come to your own views and make your own recommendations. I can assure Mr Swinney, the convener and, indeed, all members of the committee that all recommendations will be given a very fair hearing.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Angela Constance

I referred to the fact that, although the proposed introduction of a victims and witnesses commissioner has been broadly supported, there has been a lot of active campaigning on the matter, and there is never unanimity among any group. I met Mr Duffy not that long ago.

I refer back to my earlier comments. As a Government, we continue to invest heavily in victims organisations, whether through the equally safe fund or the victim-centred approach fund, which sits at £48 million. Of course, it is the job of the Parliament to hold the Government to account on what we are investing in victims organisations, and it is the job of the Government and ministers such as me to explain where we are investing the resource.

I hope to convey to the committee that, when we are providing £48 million for a victim-centred approach fund and £19 million for equally safe, the costs of establishing a victims commissioner, and the on-going costs, although not insignificant, are small in comparison.