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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 30 November 2025
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Displaying 1265 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

It is important—I am very much in favour of this—that Police Scotland has revisited its policies and procedures in and around how it assesses the impact of proposed legislation on its organisation, bearing in mind the fact that Police Scotland is best placed to provide information on impacts on operational matters. That is a significant change, which I am reassured by.

As I said to one of your colleagues earlier, you should not think that I am in any way cavalier about public money. I am not content that there has been such an increase in the costs associated with the financial memorandum. We interrogate information as it becomes available to us, but I take considerable heart from the fact that Police Scotland has a new process in place to better assess the impact of legislation on its operations. I do not want the situation that has transpired in relation to the financial memorandum that is before the committee to transpire again in the future in relation to the financial memorandums to any of my bills.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

Well, yes. I am just narrating what Police Scotland has said was one cause for reflection. In my comments to other colleagues—again, forgive me for repeating myself—I have said that Police Scotland has reviewed its approach and has adopted different processes in relation to how it assesses the impact of legislation on its organisation.

That was not done before the bill was introduced, and I am sure that both I and Police Scotland regret that. However, the fact that those processes have now been introduced should give us confidence about the information that we now have. At a corporate and an organisational level, Police Scotland has revisited its processes around how it assesses the impact of legislation on its organisation.

11:15  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

The other point that I intended to make was that there are some sensible reasons why the formal process exists for the revised or supplementary financial memorandum to be laid at the end of stage 2. As we all know, the nature of amendments is that they can incur costs.

I am also aware that, because of the revised timing for the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill, stage 2 will take place after the October recess, so there is still some distance to travel. For example, although inflation is decreasing, it has not gone away, and there will be another round of pay settlements.

On the one hand, I am respectful of the committee’s position, but, on the other hand, there are sensible reasons why a revised financial memorandum should be provided after stage 2. It is my recollection that that was the practice that was adopted most recently with the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill, a revised financial memorandum for which was provided post-stage 2.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

Which figures?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

No, I am not. As I have said, I am less than content with events; however, I am certainly content with the commitment to investing in training for new and existing officers. Our budget this year, which I have no reason to believe will change, has continued to prioritise policing overall, including the importance of front-line policing. I therefore do not accept the point about additional training, notwithstanding the fact that any training involves operational opportunity costs. Your point is overinflated. I am not trying to be rude.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

Did I? I said no to you, that I did not anticipate—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

First and foremost, I acknowledge the importance of scrutiny at every stage of the process. As well as being a minister of some years’ standing, I am also a former member of the finance committee.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

There are two points that are important here. I am simply articulating what Police Scotland has said to us and the committee, which is that, when it saw the precise wording of the bill, particularly in relation to the duties and responsibility of the chief constable to ensure that all police officers and staff are well versed in the code of ethics—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

It is always a pleasure to be at the Finance and Public Administration Committee, Mr Gibson, and I hope that I can end on a note of some consensus and at least some contrition by saying that, if I had my time over again, the thing that I would do differently would be that we would write to the committee in advance of officials giving evidence—that is for sure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

I understand the committee’s position—you want as much information as possible and you want that information to be as robust as possible, which is what I want, too. However, I know from my years in the Parliament—I think that Ms Smith and I may have joined the Parliament in the same year—that financial memorandums, under standing orders, are a “best estimate”. They have to contain the best estimate of the information that is available at the time.