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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 1099 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

I am not sure that any more clarity is required on that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

We have to remember that staff are employed on a different basis to police constables. Police staff are employed in the traditional manner, as most people in this country are. However, constables are not employees. They are office-holders who have very particular rights and responsibilities and they are in a heightened position of trust. Therefore, the roles are quite distinct. One is employed in the traditional sense and the other is an office-holder who is safeguarded with particular responsibilities and duties.

10:45  

With regard to the public’s confidence in policing and how we continue to ensure that public confidence is high, recognition of the heightened role and responsibilities of constables is important. That does not mean that ethics are not important to police staff. There is also an ethics and values framework that applies to police staff.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

I do not want to repeat myself. The core of that issue is about the distinction between being employed and being an office-holder, although I understand the logic of some of the arguments that have been marshalled around the fact that some police staff have particular responsibilities, such as the example that you have given. I do not have anything further to add on our overall position but I will check with Steven Bunch and Caroline Kubala.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

It is a professional judgment.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

Yes. The PIRC is well aware of processes and people’s rights to defend themselves.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

Although the context of our discussion is police officers, who have a higher threshold, we can think of many scenarios in any workplace where it is not proven beyond reasonable doubt in court that someone is guilty of a criminal offence but they might still be guilty of a misconduct offence, which would be determined on the balance of probabilities. It is not that there is an automatic assumption or conclusion. It is just not unusual for criminal proceedings not to proceed or to come to an end but, thereafter, for there to be a fair process in relation to whether someone has committed a breach of conduct.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

When it comes to holding gross misconduct hearings in public, I am not instinctively agin it. There are arguments for it. However, we will continue to engage with our policing partners. As you have indicated, there are a range of views. We will take the opportunity that we have in the time that we have to consider the impact of public hearings south of the border. As with any secondary legislation or other propositions, we have the opportunity to engage and consult further through the Scottish police consultative forum. As I say, I am not instinctively agin the idea, but I am still listening to the range of views.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

I would be happy to correspond with you, Mr MacGregor, because I realise that you are walking a tightrope in citing an individual case while also wanting to make broader points that are relevant to the legislative and non-legislative recommendations that have been, or are about to be, implemented.

I am happy to correspond with Mr MacGregor in detail about that, convener.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

First, I consider the PIRC to be an independent and robust organisation. With regard to the bill, there are a range of measures—I will not go through them all, as I will not test your patience, convener; I referred to them in my opening remarks—that broaden, strengthen or clarify the role of the PIRC.

On the role of Police Scotland’s professional standards department, it is entirely proportionate and reasonable for any front-line operational organisation, where appropriate, to be the first port of call to deal with complaints and issues. There are ways in which such matters can be escalated. A number of changes have been made by the professional standards department, to which I referred earlier, including earlier engagement and earlier resolution where it is appropriate.

The creation of the national complaints assessment and resolution unit also facilitates the requirement for all front-line resolutions processes to be dealt with by the professional standards department.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

I have already—I hope—addressed the point that police staff are employed and are not office-holders, so the duties on them are very different from the duties on constables. They are, however, subject to Police Scotland’s competency and values framework, which supports all professionals, and to the code of ethics, which is at the core of that framework.

With regard to matters of pay, that involves a separate process that commences annually.