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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 May 2025
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Displaying 2754 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

I confirm that we are agreed that we will close the petition.

I thank members for their consideration of the petitions. That brings the public part of today’s meeting to an end. We will consider our final agenda item in private.

11:48 Meeting continued in private until 12:09.  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

Welcome back, everyone. The next item on our agenda is consideration of public petitions. First, we will consider PE1548, which was lodged by Beth Morrison. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to introduce national guidance on the use of restraint and seclusion in all schools. Full details of the petition’s aims are provided in members’ papers.

The committee last considered the petition at our meeting on 4 May, when we noted that a working group had been developing new human rights-based, non-statutory guidance to minimise the use of restraint in schools.

In May, the committee agreed to write to the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills to seek an update on timescales for the publication of the guidance. The cabinet secretary stated in her response that the draft guidance would be put to public consultation. That was launched on 21 June and closed yesterday.

The cabinet secretary noted in her letter that

“The draft guidance focusses on preventative support that should be in place to minimise restraint and provides detailed advice and safeguards that should be followed if restraint is used”

and that it

“outlines restraints that should never be used on children and young people, such as prone and other high risk physical restraints.”

The guidance also clarifies that, should any form of restraint be used, that should be recorded.

The cabinet secretary also explained that the Scottish Government will consider placing the guidance on a statutory basis should the non-statutory guidance fail to have the desired effect.

In response to the cabinet secretary’s letter, the petitioner stated that, although some of the guidance is “good”, she is

“extremely concerned that unless the guidance is statutory, nothing will change for the staff, or children affected.”

She also expressed her disappointment that the draft guidance does not have a dedicated section for children with additional support needs. She points out that children with ASN and disabilities are

“disproportionately affected by physical intervention”.

Do members have comments on the petition?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

That is great. What else have we got? We recognise that we want the guidance to be embedded and bedded in, with the caveats mentioned. We want to make sure that the guidance serves its purpose, and we reinforce that we have concerns about the lack of statutory underpinning. That will not prevent our closing the petition, but the matter is certainly on our radar.

Does the committee agree to close the petition, write to the cabinet secretary to ask what the Government’s next steps might be on moving forward with statutory underpinning and about how the guidance will be monitored, and share with the Scottish Government the issues that were raised by the petitioner? In relation to Graeme Dey’s point, we could also flag in our legacy paper that our successor committee might want to consider the petition. Are we all content with that approach?

Members indicated agreement.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

That is great.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

Wendy Brownlie is keen to come in.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

It is great to hear that that cross-border work is happening in Argyll and Bute. Once again, however, it is the local authorities that are taking the lead in managing that. Carrie Lindsay mentioned how complex that approach might be for City of Edinburgh Council, given all the different local authority areas that people come in from, and the volumes that are involved.

Would things work more effectively if parents were in control of the funding, perhaps through a voucher system? Should they have the agency to choose where and how the hours are delivered, rather than that being under the control of the local authorities?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

I have dealt with the local authority with regard to families that are trying to get their child a funded space in my city. Perhaps it is an Edinburgh thing, but the complexity that the families have to face in doing that is quite an embarrassment. I have lots of families that have nothing at the moment because there is no flexibility.

We will move on to some questions from Willie Rennie.

10:00  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

Margot Black wants to contribute, too.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

Does that make sense? It might be challenging to ask that, but we want to know what they are saying to you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny: Early Learning and Childcare

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Sue Webber

Michael, I am mindful of our audience today, and you have progressed a bit further with your questions than we wanted to. I know that there are colleagues who wanted to ask other questions before you moved on to the next issue.