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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 May 2025
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Displaying 2754 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

I doubt that this is possible, but I must ask for a really concise answer to that question. I am looking at the clock, and there are a number of other themes that we need to follow up on.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

The figures might be there, but Michelle Thomson—one of your own members—said that she felt that you might be

“under pressure ... of timescales ... to deliver”

on the bill, but that from the

“perspective of financial scrutiny,”

she was looking at

“a blank cheque. That is deeply worrying in respect of the public purse.”—[Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 25 October 2022; c 16.]

That is the point that we are trying to get over here. Right now, there are significant pressures across budgets, so is this the right time to be doing it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

I think, Mr Stewart, that an extra £1.5 billion is coming to the Scottish Government.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

Ruth Maguire has another question, which might delve down a bit deeper.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

Mr Rennie has a supplementary question on that theme.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

We have heard a lot about a phased approach, but we have not been given a timescale as to how long it may take for the big new organisation to be embedded. We heard from Mike Burns of Social Work Scotland that culture change can take

“five, 10 or 15 years.”—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 9 November 2022; c 20.]

Mr Stewart, you mentioned earlier that legislation and regulation do not bring about a change in culture. Given that it has taken so long for the integration legislation to get to this point, and it still has problems, do you think that all these years of change and adjustment are worth it? Should we not be focusing here and now on what we can improve on now?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

Thank you, Mr Stewart—we have had some informal sessions with service delivery organisations, albeit from the voluntary sector, so we are aware of that.

We have a final question from Willie Rennie.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

I thank you all for your time today. The public part of our meeting is now an end, and we will consider our final agenda items in private.

11:12 Meeting continued in private until 11:58.  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

Good morning, and welcome to the 29th meeting in 2022 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. We have received apologies from Stephen Kerr.

The first item on our agenda is our third evidence session on the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. We will hear from Clare Haughey, the Minister for Children and Young People, and Kevin Stewart, the Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care. Joining them from the Scottish Government are: Paul Beaton, the unit head of children’s services; Iona Colvin, the chief social work adviser; and Donna Bell, the director of social care and national care service development.

The ministers will each give a short opening statement. We will start with Mr Stewart, followed by Ms Haughey.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

I thank you both for your opening statements.

In our previous two committee meetings, we heard from an extensive list of stakeholders. No one is looking for children’s services to be included in the national care service; no one is demanding that. Most witnesses were ambivalent at best, and they were overwhelmingly concerned that that is a giant distraction that will get in the way of them doing their work. Can you honestly say that that will not be a bureaucratic monster that will get in the way of children’s services providing the care that is needed? Why are those who are on the front line so unconvinced that that is the right approach?