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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 December 2025
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Displaying 2076 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

It is for that exact reason that the committee is asking itself how, subject to the Parliament’s decision on the bill before us, we might future proof that situation in which a First Minister might use the veto. In that case, the only remedy for an individual would be, as Ross Grimley has said, to take the First Minister to court and have a judicial review of the process of using that veto, which might have been used because of, say, national security or any of the other exemptions.

This is one of the few areas of the bill where the responses that we have received have been overwhelmingly articulated in the same way, which is as follows: “This veto has existed from day 1, it has never been used, and we don’t think it is necessary.” The Scottish Government is making a statement to the people of Scotland that there is some information that, rightly and for extremely good reasons, cannot be disclosed, but the power is never going to sit just with the First Minister—there are layers before that.

I just wonder whether this brings us back to what we have been talking about with regard to the pause and people failing to get the information that they think they are entitled to or that they think exists. Is the Scottish Government actually the outlier? I understand the reasons behind the argument, but can I suggest that you think again—or at least consider the issue again?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

Absolutely. I am sorry, Ruth—you wanted to come in.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

And there is a value in freedom of information.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 22nd meeting in 2025 of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee.

I have received apologies from Emma Roddick. I welcome Rona Mackay, who attends as committee substitute. Good morning, Rona.

Our first item is an evidence-taking session on the Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. We are joined by Katy Clark MSP, who introduced the bill.

I welcome our witnesses. David Hamilton is the Scottish Information Commissioner, and Paul Mutch is deputy head of policy and information in the commissioner’s office. Good morning.

I will kick straight off with questions. I will come to you first, David, as commissioner.

In the spirit of a starter for 10, will you expand on why you think that reform of primary legislation is needed at this stage? That is a nice, easy opening question.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

That is fine.

I am going to jump about a bit and come to Jill McPherson regarding the listed public authorities. Is the review still on-going or has it concluded?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

Thank you, minister, and thank you, Jill McPherson and Ross Grimley, for your evidence and for attending the committee this morning. I know that you are going to write to us. We know where you are, and you know where we are.

11:01 Meeting continued in private until 11:24.  

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

Yes.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

I go back to the concept in the bill of a movement to proactive publication. You have set out your response to that and the concerns about it. Would the Government support it if a limitation to the specific information that needs to be proactively published was specified through secondary legislation or guidance, or, to look at it the other way, if there were very clear exemptions to proactive publication? Could a process shift the view of the Government on its stance on institutions moving to proactive publication?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

That is helpful. Interestingly, in its submission, the Law Society of Scotland talked about your lack of power with regard to the inspection of electronic devices and things like that. You have already talked about certain areas in which things need to be tightened up because they were missed or because they just need to be tightened up. Have you considered what other powers you need and whether the bill might be the vehicle to provide you with those powers? Such powers could include the seizure of electronic devices or access to AI databases in California to see what is in them.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Martin Whitfield

Do you see the designation of freedom of information officers within institutions as an advantage? Do you see the benefit of having such officers as a place for you or the public to go to in the first instance?