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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Meeting date: 20 November 2025
Martin Whitfield
Correspondence with the royal family?
Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Meeting date: 20 November 2025
Martin Whitfield
I go back to the concept in the bill of a movement to proactive publication. You have set out your response to that and the concerns about it. Would the Government support it if a limitation to the specific information that needs to be proactively published was specified through secondary legislation or guidance, or, to look at it the other way, if there were very clear exemptions to proactive publication? Could a process shift the view of the Government on its stance on institutions moving to proactive publication?
Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Meeting date: 20 November 2025
Martin Whitfield
We are discussing almost the same questions about what freedom of information means that we were being asked 22 or 24 years ago, before the first legislation. You have summed it up nicely, Jill, in that there needs to be a balance.
Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Meeting date: 20 November 2025
Martin Whitfield
Absolutely.
Before I bring in Katy Clark, I have a couple of questions for you, minister, about the change in the technological field, even since we started scrutinising the bill and certainly over the past 20 years, particularly in relation to the AI applications that are available now. We are potentially entering an area where we can use AI to mine publicly available data or data that may exist in a public form in one organisation but not in others. If we are optimistic, that may take us strides forward in freedom of information and in what information is available.
I can think of cases about whether councils knew about potholes, for example. Responses to freedom of information requests suggested that the council knew about them only once in one department, whereas AI suggested that 20 different departments knew about the same pothole. Technology is making available information that is not connected up within organisations. What is your view about how we can encompass that in the changing world of FOI?
Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Meeting date: 20 November 2025
Martin Whitfield
It is an easy one to finish with.
Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Meeting date: 20 November 2025
Martin Whitfield
I have another question to ask before you move on from that, Ruth. One thing that has come up is the fact that the actual request can change in the 20-day period, which means that what is finally answered is sometimes very different from what was initially asked, partly because some information will have been delivered. How do you see the interaction between what are effectively new freedom of information requests arising in that period and the risk that the pause could be undermined because the request is treated as being new, which triggers a fresh 20-day period?
Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Meeting date: 20 November 2025
Martin Whitfield
And there is a value in freedom of information.
Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Meeting date: 20 November 2025
Martin Whitfield
Thank you, minister, and thank you, Jill McPherson and Ross Grimley, for your evidence and for attending the committee this morning. I know that you are going to write to us. We know where you are, and you know where we are.
11:01 Meeting continued in private until 11:24.Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Meeting date: 20 November 2025
Martin Whitfield
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 22nd meeting in 2025 of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee.
I have received apologies from Emma Roddick. I welcome Rona Mackay, who attends as committee substitute. Good morning, Rona.
Our first item is an evidence-taking session on the Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. We are joined by Katy Clark MSP, who introduced the bill.
I welcome our witnesses. David Hamilton is the Scottish Information Commissioner, and Paul Mutch is deputy head of policy and information in the commissioner’s office. Good morning.
I will kick straight off with questions. I will come to you first, David, as commissioner.
In the spirit of a starter for 10, will you expand on why you think that reform of primary legislation is needed at this stage? That is a nice, easy opening question.
Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Meeting date: 20 November 2025
Martin Whitfield
David, you talked about the changing position of AI, and you rightly pointed out that it is in a very different place now from where it was when the bill was first considered. Do you have any fears about technology effectively allowing for information to be hidden? Is that a genuine concern? Is it something that we should be worried about and that the bill can address or should we be a bit more optimistic about technology, because new technologies such as AI might make it incredibly difficult to hide data and information?
09:45