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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 June 2025
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Displaying 1653 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Martin Whitfield

That is fine. I will pass over to Rona Mackay.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Martin Whitfield

It is certainly not a matter on which we are taking evidence for the bill.

I thank Ben Stanford, Alistair Clark and Nick McKerrell for their attendance today. If any thoughts come to you after the meeting, please feel free to reach out and write to us. Similarly, I hope that, if we have any questions for you, you will reciprocate with a response—unlike Mr Schwarzenegger, who is not on the witness list for the bill, perhaps unfortunately from Graham Simpson’s point of view.

I suspend the meeting for a changeover of witnesses.

10:14 Meeting suspended.  

10:19 On resuming—  

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Martin Whitfield

So, you have a concern, but you have a level of confidence that, with amendment and structure, that could be offset and protected against. Certainly, monitoring of the legislation would allow it to be revisited, if necessary.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Martin Whitfield

Willie, can I come to you, both on public education and on education for individuals who are elected members?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Martin Whitfield

So, you support what Annabel Mullin said, which is that elected individuals must clearly understand the expectations and the consequences that flow from not meeting them. However, you are saying that, in reality, the opportunity will only exist to educate the public more about the recall process and the reason for it when it interfaces with the public.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Martin Whitfield

So, there is a potential tension. Therefore, the committee should look closely at the triggering effects, because, if we do not, that conflict could potentially cause a bigger problem.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Martin Whitfield

Thank you. I am sure that we will explore some of those points in detail later. I pass over to Sue Webber.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Martin Whitfield

You have raised the issue of turnout at by-elections, which is somewhere between 32 and 45 per cent, depending on the circumstances. They are very small turnouts, compared to full elections, and yet the level of 10 per cent triggers a by-election. Is there merit in looking at the connection between the figures, or should we look separately at the policy decision on the level of 10 per cent and the reality of the enthusiasm or otherwise for by-elections?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Martin Whitfield

Yes, it is a policy decision. That is helpful.

Another issue that I have picked up concerns the indicators that could prompt the recall process. Do we need to be careful in that regard, and to recognise the difference between what are potentially political decisions to seek to oust an MSP and a more moral agreed understanding? For example, removal following imprisonment for the period of a year already exists; there are measures to identify that.

What is the tension between the internal Scottish Parliament consequences that could lead to the process being activated and the external ones? What level of care do we need to put in place if we are going to pull our internal behaviour into an external result?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Martin Whitfield

Should we consider that aspect as part of the bill or, if the bill becomes law, should it be considered internally by the Parliament with regard to its procedures?