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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 October 2025
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Displaying 1891 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Martin Whitfield

Our second item of business is evidence on three Scottish statutory instruments that relate to the issue of dual mandates. Members will recall that, earlier in the parliamentary session, the committee considered a petition that related to dual mandates, and we asked about the issue in our stage 1 scrutiny of the Scottish Elections (Representation and Reform) Bill. Amendments to the bill at later stages led to the SSIs that are before us. For our consideration of these SSIs, we are joined by Graham Simpson, who lodged the amendments.

We will have the opportunity today to take evidence from Graeme Dey, the Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans, before we consider whether to recommend to the Parliament that the regulations be approved. I welcome Graeme Dey to the meeting and to his new ministerial position. From the Scottish Government, I also welcome Ailsa McKeever, from the Parliament and legislation unit; Iain Hockenhull, head of the elections team; and Jordon McGrory from the legal directorate.

Before we move to questions, I invite the minister to make an opening statement.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Martin Whitfield

Thank you. Before we move to questions, there are a number of declarations of interest.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Martin Whitfield

It is the phrase “further reassurance” about an SSI—all three SSIs that are being presented today—that worries me. Emma Roddick, would you like to come in? Emma is online.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Martin Whitfield

There is no deduction in relation to members of the House of Lords because, as you say in the policy document, they do not receive a salary; they receive an attendance allowance. What consideration was given to that, perhaps drawing on the consultation, and why was it not considered appropriate to treat the attendance allowance in the same way as the salaries for councillors and MPs?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Martin Whitfield

Yes. I go back to the fundamental reasons for seeking to end dual mandates, namely that it is rightly considered that roles such as councillor, MP and MSP are full-time jobs and that we expect the individuals who fulfil those roles to give them their full-time commitment. The discussions that we have had about the financial side relate to the practical implementation of one of the consequences, whereby individuals benefit—I use the word “benefit”, although I doubt that any of them feel that it is a benefit in this sense—from receiving, in effect, two salaries for a period of time. That is the policy decision in relation to what we are trying to achieve today, is it not?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Martin Whitfield

Who will take responsibility for the monitoring?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Martin Whitfield

Do you have a precedent for that?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Martin Whitfield

Okay—I am grateful for that. Are you content, minister, with those answers on behalf of the Scottish Government?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Martin Whitfield

I apologise to Graham Simpson, but I have a final question before I come to him.

At present, according to my understanding, lords essentially suspend their membership of the House of Lords for the period, and that cannot be reinstated without it being a matter of public notice. What was the policy reason for not being satisfied with that, but requiring entire termination from the House of Lords?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Martin Whitfield

Before you continue, Graham, Ruth Maguire has a supplementary question on that point.