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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 July 2025
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Displaying 1184 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People (Cass Review)

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Carol Mochan

I am pleased to close the debate for Scottish Labour and I thank members across the chamber for their contributions.

On the whole, across the Parliament, we believe that the Cass report is a considered scientific paper and that that message should go out from the Parliament. If members get the opportunity to watch the evidence from Dr Hilary Cass yesterday, they will see that the report has been pulled together by a clinician with an extremely caring side, and that shows throughout the whole hour.

There can be no doubt that this is a subject that a lot of people feel very strongly about. It is also an issue that has become needlessly complex when, in reality, what we want is for the best and the right care to be available for all those people who need it.

It would not do to pretend that the only people who are concerned about the issue are people who we deem to be out of touch. It is a big issue for a lot of people. They are discussing the issue and contacting their MSPs, so we have a responsibility to take leadership in this area.

There are legitimate concerns that must be addressed in how the Government responds to the Cass report. Fortunately, Dr Cass has provided some clarity for us, and we need to heed that clarity. I will make a short mention of my colleague Claire Baker, who as early as 2022 was asking the Parliament to look at the interim report and to show support for the clinicians who we know were left feeling vulnerable. That is why this Parliament and Government should be involved in the decisions around the Cass review.

The findings of the Cass review should be implemented without delay. There are many children and young people with gender dysphoria who need some certainty, and we are in a position to provide them with that. Pausing the use of puberty blockers was the right first step in providing that certainty. My party welcomes that decision, but now we need to move forward and ensure that quick and responsive services are available to those young people, as was discussed by many members—in particular, Pauline McNeill and Ruth Maguire. I also add my thanks to people who have shared their stories, so that we can get it right for future generations.

Unfortunately, we recently had a Government tripping over itself on messaging and substance, and that trend caused confusion. The confusion has affected people’s lives, and that is not acceptable. As my colleague Jackie Baillie indicated, we need some leadership, and we hope that we will get that now.

The SNP now has new leadership. With that comes the opportunity to accept that there were mistakes and that we should look at more sensible approaches. It is our position that we will make every effort to do that with the Government, as members will see from our amendment, and we thank the Government for supporting it.

Our message is that we do not need another working group, because the work has been done. Dr Cass and her team are widely respected, and there is no doubt that the evidence in the report is good. Dr Cass confirmed to us that she has been discussing her work with the minister since 2022, so there is nothing unexpected in the report. The Government knew what was coming, and the evidence session yesterday at the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee confirmed that we could be moving on. The longer we delay, the more young people will experience seemingly endless waits, and no one wants that.

I will finish my remarks there, because I know that we are tight for time. Again, I thank all the members who have contributed to the debate.

16:14  

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Carol Mochan

Thank you. That is one of the issues that we need to get right for both clinicians and young people.

I wonder if you could you give us a little information. One thing that has interested us is people presenting at the clinics who are same-sex attracted and how we make sure that there is that space for those young people. You mentioned a case earlier in which a person reflected on what had happened to them in that regard. If I put that issue in the context of a conversion therapy bill, do you think that we need to take that apart and look at having a bill that deals with conversion therapy in relation to same-sex attraction and trans identity? Should we consider doing that?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Carol Mochan

That is really helpful. Thank you very much.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Food Standards Scotland

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Carol Mochan

You have covered a lot of what I was going to ask about. I am interested in the notion that, if we want to meet more targets, particularly on childhood obesity, we need to move away from talking about things to taking action. I believe that Governments must take responsibility for their part of the picture: it is not all about individual choice, because we know that communities are not set up that way, especially in areas that have high levels of health inequality. If you were going to give us homework, on what three areas could the committee achievably push the Government to take action?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Carol Mochan

Why were no trans people included in the review team?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Food Standards Scotland

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Carol Mochan

There is talk about labelling or not labelling foods, particularly on menus when people eat out. I am interested in that, as well. Where are you on that?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Food Standards Scotland

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Carol Mochan

That is really helpful. Thank you.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Carol Mochan

Dr Cass, I want to explore the approaches to gender care for young people and the move to what you have described as the gender-affirmative model, which is the dominant model of care. You have talked about clinicians feeling pressure to simply affirm children and that that could lead to diagnostic overshadowing; for example, you have spoken about mental health issues that have been missed. How would a conversion therapy ban affect that situation? Could you advise how we might go forward with a ban to ensure that we give children protected time to consider things?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Carol Mochan

My final question is on a point that was raised with the committee, which was about including someone with trans identity in the review team. Did you consider doing that?

Meeting of the Parliament

Further Education Pay

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Carol Mochan

I thank my colleague Richard Leonard for bringing this important debate to the chamber and pay tribute to members of EIS-FELA, who are fighting passionately for pay and conditions that reflect the work that they do in the further education sector.

Further education lecturers make up a skilled and dedicated workforce and they have my full support and solidarity as we continue to stand with them on the picket lines and stand up for them in the Parliament. It is the responsibility of Opposition and back-bench members to make the point to the minister that it is a fair fight and we should bring it to the Parliament.

I have stood side by side with further education lecturers and other staff at Ayrshire College, and the overwhelming feeling that they expressed is of being undervalued. We can talk about valuing those staff, but the sector needs action. It needs members on these benches and the Government’s back-bench members to talk about the action that the Government can take.

Our further education workforce teaches key skills and sets up people for a life in skilled employment. The members of that workforce are experts in their individual fields and choose to dedicate their lives to improving others’ outcomes. However, Colleges Scotland and the Scottish Government still cannot bring themselves to recognise that value. As the motion states, the offer that is on the table represents a real-terms pay reduction. That means that, while the Scottish Government is underfunding colleges, as we have heard, and cuts are felt across the country, Colleges Scotland is doubling down and making an insulting offer to lecturers.

Further education lecturers have been forced into industrial action. Action short of a strike was not met with an acceptable response. In some cases, the actions of management in colleges have fallen well short of the expectations that are set out in the fair work framework. The minister’s response should reference those matters. It is nothing short of appalling that our lecturers are being treated in this way. They do not deserve to have to go through such a gruelling battle simply to see their pay and conditions reflect the valuable work that they do. They deserve so much better and they will continue to have the support of members on these benches.

I turn briefly to students. I put on the record my thanks to all the students who have come out in support of the action that is being taken by their lecturers. When attempts have been made to pit students against lecturers, it has been truly heartening to see so many students standing with their lecturers, recognising their importance and the importance of the action that they are taking. The sector is so important to ordinary working people, and the students recognise that.

The minister will not like to hear this, but my colleague mentioned that he is often described as the missing man, and he must do better. I can say to him today that these workers will not stop their fight for better pay and conditions and the trade union movement will not be deterred by a lack of co-operation from the Scottish Government. That will merely intensify efforts, and I urge the minister to get key stakeholders around the table and intervene.

The reality is that the further education lecturers’ ask is not unreasonable. The work that they do is invaluable and the impact that their efforts have on improving skills, supporting employment opportunities, growing the economy and delivering positive outcomes for those in areas that need it most cannot go unnoticed and unrewarded. The minister must act.

16:36