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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 May 2025
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Displaying 1498 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Access to Justice

Meeting date: 14 March 2023

Maggie Chapman

Okay, thank you; that is helpful. Jen Ang, you commented on the kind of standardisation that would be needed and the inclusion of a right to legal representation, along the lines that Colin Lancaster has described. What would that process require, and what would need to change around our current thinking about legal aid?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Access to Justice

Meeting date: 14 March 2023

Maggie Chapman

Thank you—that was really helpful. It is a big question for us to consider, but it is really important.

Finally, I was struck by Rachel Moon’s comment in her opening remarks that, in relation to the strategic work that needs to be done on legal aid, we needed to

“move the boundaries of equalities law.”

I am curious to hear a little bit more about what you mean by that.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Access to Justice

Meeting date: 14 March 2023

Maggie Chapman

That was interesting, and in some ways, it ties in with Fiona McPhail’s previous point about looking at rights in the round and ensuring that we are linking into the issue of what all citizens should be able to expect of services, whether they be legal or other public services.

I could go on, but I probably should not. Thank you, convener.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Access to Justice

Meeting date: 14 March 2023

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us and for what you have said.

We have already touched on some of the legal aid reforms that you consider to be required, but I want to explore some of them in a bit more detail.

We have talked about the need for different funding and delivery models. Jim Stephenson mentioned the need for an independent body to oversee some of that. I am also struck by the fact that the Evans review of 2018 is five years old now, and Jim Stephenson said that there had been very little movement since then. The review was not persuaded of a general need to increase legal aid fees. Is that because there is a distinction between civil cases and criminal cases? Does the civil stuff get left out a little bit in a way that the criminal stuff does not? What is your assessment of where the review’s position on that came from?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Access to Justice

Meeting date: 14 March 2023

Maggie Chapman

Should we consider legal aid to be a public service? Do you think that it would help if we had that as the framework within which we worked? That would bring together all the different elements that you have just mentioned in a more coherent way. Would that help?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Access to Justice

Meeting date: 14 March 2023

Maggie Chapman

I have a question for Colin Lancaster on the connection between the delivery models and funding. Where do you see us needing to go with that? In your opening remarks, you mentioned the need for primary legislation. Will you unpick that a little bit more?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Access to Justice

Meeting date: 14 March 2023

Maggie Chapman

Another striking idea to come from the Evans review was the need to shift to a more citizen-centred system. What would we need to do with our funding models and the funding landscape to achieve that approach?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Access to Justice

Meeting date: 14 March 2023

Maggie Chapman

That goes back to Fiona McPhail’s question—what if you had the right to legal representation if you were about to lose your house? Is that the kind of thing that we could draw into that model of understanding?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Access to Justice

Meeting date: 14 March 2023

Maggie Chapman

Thank you, Jen; that is helpful. Fiona, I have referenced you a few times. Do you want to come in? I will then have one final question.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Access to Justice

Meeting date: 14 March 2023

Maggie Chapman

That would be better for everybody.