Seòmar agus comataidhean

Hi, everyone. I am Maggie Chapman and I am the deputy convener of the committee.

Thank you for that response, minister. There are quite a few bits and pieces in it. With reference to one of your earlier answers about the anti-racism observatory, time and time again, year after year, the committee has heard that we do not necessarily have the right data and that we do not monitor comparable data effectively, whether it be geographically, sectorally or in any of the other stratifications that we might need to use.

You have outlined the anti-racism employment strategy and the action plan, which I expect will link into the fair work action plan. What are the relationships between those strategies and the work of the anti-racism observatory? There is no point in all that good work going on if it does not join up. If those elements do not connect, we will not see the impact of good work or the gaps where things are falling through the cracks.

We have identified gaps in the data, and you have explained the work that is under way to plug those. Our aim is to have evidence-based policy, but the challenge is that we already have evidence of inequality. I urge the Government to focus on action rather than just collecting stuff on areas that we already know are problematic.

I take on board what you said about the various elements having to work together and some of the strategies being new. I am sure that I speak for the committee when I say that we would welcome updates on the different strands of work that you have outlined, not only as part of our pre-budget scrutiny but on an on-going basis.

Shall I move on to my next question, convener?

This question is also from Shama, who writes:

“The panel feels that many people, especially those from diverse ethnic backgrounds, are unaware of what constitutes their basic human rights, especially when they have moved to Scotland as adults. Can the Minister outline her commitment to ensuring all communities and people of all ages, including New Scots, are educated on their human rights by explaining the opportunities that the upcoming Human Rights Bill will bring, including how the Bill might link to national indicators and measuring the progress of existing equality and anti-racism strategies?”

Good morning, and welcome to the committee again. Thank you for coming along and for the time that you have put into preparing for this session. We have been talking about how we will ask the questions. Shama, on your behalf, and on behalf of the panel members, I will ask the minister the two questions that you just read out.

When you were thinking about your questions, did you have in mind any examples or any part of your lived experience that you would like me to keep in my mind as I am asking them?

I appreciate what you say about it being a work in progress and the political discussion around the bill being a phenomenal opportunity to talk about rights more generally across society. You speak about targeted work for the people who are furthest away from power and who are most often marginalised and excluded, and that is really important. We have had discussions in the committee before about easy-to-ignore groups of people—people who do not have a voice. The panel is an opportunity to try to redress the balance, although it does not go the whole way in doing so.

I have a question that arises from what you said. People need to know about their rights in order to know whether they are accessing and realising them. Information is needed—probably for people in this building, too—about what we mean when we say, “You have a right to housing.” What does that actually mean? What kind of house? Is it about just any form of shelter over a person’s head or does it have to be warm and secure? I am interested in the implementation group’s work, and perhaps there is something around building an understanding of what we might describe as a definition of the minimum core in terms of our obligations.

If you do not have anything to say, it is okay.

Thank you, Erika. That is really helpful. I will bear that in mind.

Good morning to you and your officials, minister. I have two questions to put to you on behalf of Shama.

Shama writes:

“The Panel has strong concerns about the ethnic minority pay gap, both for children growing up in Scotland, and for New Scots, and feel that closing this gap is crucial to closing the poverty gap and supporting people from ethnic minorities throughout their lifetime. We know that two thirds of immigrants to Scotland have a degree, yet there still remains a significant pay gap. How is the Minister taking a cross-portfolio approach to closing the ethnic minority pay gap, including working with Ministerial colleagues to make sure there are equal employability opportunities for school-leavers and monitoring the ethnic minority pay gap, especially in the context of the anti-racist employment strategy?”

Are they barriers? Does the Scottish Government have a role in alleviating some of those challenges? Is it doing what it should be doing in that regard?