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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 October 2025
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Displaying 1719 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

I put that question to the other witnesses. Given the sensitivities, tensions and potential conflicts that some of you have identified, how will society be able to support children to express their rights, as enshrined in the UNCRC, particularly those in articles 12 and 14?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks very much for that. It is important to note that, just because things are not brought to the surface, it does not mean that they are not rumbling underneath. Some of the examples that you have given highlight the broader issues of stigmatisation, othering and just not feeling like you belong, whether they are raised by parent or child. We will consider that carefully as we gather our evidence on the bill.

Do witnesses have any other comments on the rights?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Dr Sanchez, you have been quite clear that, in your view, the mandating of RO is the main issue, and that the distinction between RO and RME is important.

Fraser, what would your solution be, if not the provisions in the bill? Given the guidance and the statutory obligations that exist, where should the conversation about rights for parents and guardians and children and young people go? We heard quite a lot of tension about children being pitted against their parents or guardians and the consequences that that can have, especially if there are issues of family separation and so on. We also heard about the idea of enabling spiritual development in a way that is right for the individual, rather than saying, “This is how it has to happen.” Can you see a way through that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

You are looking at the statutory enforcement route.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks to you both.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. We heard in the earlier sessions this morning about some of the challenges that schools might face in facilitating such discussions. For example, anxiety may be expressed by both parents and children, or by either parents or children, in different situations. They may be anxious about even raising the issue, because they do not want to be stigmatised and show themselves to be different in some way or another.

We heard earlier about some good examples of where such conversations are handled very sensitively and cleverly in some respects. How do we ensure that there is no stigmatisation and no risk of othering? There is a risk that the issue may not be raised in a conversation at all, because children do not want to annoy their parents, and parents do not want to shine the spotlight on the child as “other”.

Do you have any further thoughts on that? What you have said is fine—I just wondered whether you wanted to add anything else.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, everyone. I am sorry that I cannot join you in person, but greetings from sunny Dundee.

Angela O’Hagan, you talked about the gap between narrative and practice and about the lack of fluency. One of the reasons why the committee started this process was to try to identify how we could close those gaps. What is your analysis or understanding of why there are still those gaps and the lack of fluency that you described?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Sorry—I muted myself to cough and then realised that I could not unmute myself.

I will leave it there, convener. I am happy to pass over to others, and I will come in again if something else sparks a question.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

We have heard about the tools that are available to you and your colleagues throughout the different levels of local and central Government. The national outcomes are one of those key tools. However, the national outcomes and national performance framework do not always match up. We cannot always follow the thread through from the NPF, budgets or the programme for government to the delivery of outcomes. Will you, minister or cabinet secretary, say more about how the Government is trying to follow those things through more concretely? What is your assessment of the delay in refreshing some of the national outcomes?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you very much.