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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 October 2025
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Displaying 1719 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

And all the safety issues.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, and thank you for joining us. You may have heard, in the earlier evidence session, quite a lot of discussion about the potential conflict between parents’ rights as primary educators of their children and children’s rights to free expression of their spiritual or religious development in ways that suit them.

The Scottish Government’s view of the bill is that the new process would better support UNCRC articles 12 and 14 on the right to be heard and on freedom of thought, conscience and religion. How do you see that intention to give those rights legitimacy in our laws, alongside the potential conflict with parents’ rights to be primary educators?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks very much. My final question perhaps follows on from some of Pam Gosal’s questions about consistency and the issues across the board. I hear the views about whether or not we should have RO but, given that we do, how best can headteachers, schools, local authorities and others who are having the high-level conversations about it ensure consistency, so that—as you were saying, Fraser—the principles of inclusion, non-stigmatising and non-othering processes are universally understood? How would you go about doing that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Yes, but as long as we have it, would that be the route?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Okay, that is helpful. Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks, Rachel. That is really helpful. It is important for us to bear that in mind as we consider the bill. You mentioned the child’s increase in agency and the receding of parental rights as that happens. What mechanism do you envisage will enable that to be supported? Is it statutory guidance for schools, or training and support for teachers? Do we have the mechanisms in place or will they be enabled by the bill? Do we need to look at something else that will support that shift and the transfer of responsibility, I suppose, from the parent and state to the child?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. I saw Angela O’Hagan nodding vehemently as you were speaking. Angela, do you want to come back in on that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is really helpful. Elaine, do you want to comment on that? You do not have to, but you are welcome to if you want to add anything.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, and thank you for joining us. I thank Stephen Allison for his comments, which I echo. I was appalled by the situation that Leah Rivka described. That should not happen in any school in any situation.

Barbara Coupar, you said that it was interesting and important that this conversation is taking place at the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee rather than at the Education, Children and Young People Committee because of the foundation of rights that underpins not only the proposals in the bill but the broader conversation. Could you say a little bit more about the conversation that takes place within Catholic education and Catholic schools on the rights in the UNCRC—in particular, article 12, on the right for young people to be heard, and article 14, on freedom of expression and freedom of religion? How do you draw those into the discussion, given some of the tensions and sensitivities that we have mentioned?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you—that was helpful. I suppose that we are talking about some of the tensions that folk have outlined. If there was strong disagreement between a child and their parent about how they wanted to develop their spirituality, their freedom of expression or their freedom of belief, how would you facilitate conversations about that?