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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 March 2026
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Displaying 1943 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks to you both.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. We heard in the earlier sessions this morning about some of the challenges that schools might face in facilitating such discussions. For example, anxiety may be expressed by both parents and children, or by either parents or children, in different situations. They may be anxious about even raising the issue, because they do not want to be stigmatised and show themselves to be different in some way or another.

We heard earlier about some good examples of where such conversations are handled very sensitively and cleverly in some respects. How do we ensure that there is no stigmatisation and no risk of othering? There is a risk that the issue may not be raised in a conversation at all, because children do not want to annoy their parents, and parents do not want to shine the spotlight on the child as “other”.

Do you have any further thoughts on that? What you have said is fine—I just wondered whether you wanted to add anything else.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you—that is clear. Does anybody else want to comment on the opt in, opt out question?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is a really helpful suggestion. We will take it away and tease it out. I will leave it there, convener.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning to the panel. Thank you very much for joining us and for your contributions so far.

It is quite clear from what Caitlin Fitzgerald has said and from Rachel Fox’s comments that there is a need to disaggregate RO and RME. We have heard the same from other witnesses this morning, and we will take that into our deliberations.

I have also quite clearly heard frustration—if I can put it like that—that the bill is perhaps a missed opportunity to do something not necessarily grander but much more complete on the rights of the child. I suppose that that is where I want to focus my first question. Articles 12 and 14 of the UNCRC clearly speak of the right to be heard and the freedoms of expression, conscience, thought and religion. The bill is perhaps intended to fulfil some of those rights, although perhaps not in the way that we might wish, with a stand-alone act that would be UNCRC compliant.

A question that was posed back to us earlier this morning was about a balance—or a tension—between the parent’s rights as the primary educator of their children to make those choices for them, and the UNCRC articles that I have mentioned. How do you balance those rights? Angela O’Hagan said that what we are talking about is the child’s right to religious expression, freedom of religion and so on, but do you see a way through any potential conflicts that schools would have to navigate?

Angela, I will come to you first.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks, Angela. That is really helpful. Rachel, I know that you want to comment, and I am happy to bring you in.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Are there things that we can do in legislation to support those conversations and to prevent the stigmatising or othering, or the singling out, of individuals, whether those are the children or the parents?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

I think that we all ruminate on that in the committee. Do any other witnesses want to comment on those rights questions?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That fundamental has to be our starting point.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you. I will leave it there, convener.