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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 26 January 2026
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Displaying 1829 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning to the panel. Thank you very much for joining us and for your contributions so far.

It is quite clear from what Caitlin Fitzgerald has said and from Rachel Fox’s comments that there is a need to disaggregate RO and RME. We have heard the same from other witnesses this morning, and we will take that into our deliberations.

I have also quite clearly heard frustration—if I can put it like that—that the bill is perhaps a missed opportunity to do something not necessarily grander but much more complete on the rights of the child. I suppose that that is where I want to focus my first question. Articles 12 and 14 of the UNCRC clearly speak of the right to be heard and the freedoms of expression, conscience, thought and religion. The bill is perhaps intended to fulfil some of those rights, although perhaps not in the way that we might wish, with a stand-alone act that would be UNCRC compliant.

A question that was posed back to us earlier this morning was about a balance—or a tension—between the parent’s rights as the primary educator of their children to make those choices for them, and the UNCRC articles that I have mentioned. How do you balance those rights? Angela O’Hagan said that what we are talking about is the child’s right to religious expression, freedom of religion and so on, but do you see a way through any potential conflicts that schools would have to navigate?

Angela, I will come to you first.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks, Angela. That is really helpful. Rachel, I know that you want to comment, and I am happy to bring you in.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Are there things that we can do in legislation to support those conversations and to prevent the stigmatising or othering, or the singling out, of individuals, whether those are the children or the parents?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

I think that we all ruminate on that in the committee. Do any other witnesses want to comment on those rights questions?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That fundamental has to be our starting point.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you. I will leave it there, convener.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. There is frustration about the lack of joining those things up in that way.

Allan Faulds, you talked about the tensions between revenue generation, resource generation and allocation but also about some of the priorities that the ALLIANCE would have in health and social care. Over the course of this parliamentary session, have you seen a shift in priorities in relation to how we fund, resource and determine priorities for services and outcomes?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks very much, folks.

Have there been any policy priorities that you would have expected to see some progress on? Even if it is only narrative progress, are there policy changes that you would have wanted to see that you have not seen over the three or four-year conversation about human rights budgeting?

09:30  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, everyone. I am sorry that I cannot join you in person, but greetings from sunny Dundee.

Angela O’Hagan, you talked about the gap between narrative and practice and about the lack of fluency. One of the reasons why the committee started this process was to try to identify how we could close those gaps. What is your analysis or understanding of why there are still those gaps and the lack of fluency that you described?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Sorry—I muted myself to cough and then realised that I could not unmute myself.

I will leave it there, convener. I am happy to pass over to others, and I will come in again if something else sparks a question.