Seòmar agus comataidhean

Good morning Rob and Vicki; thank you for joining us. We heard from the earlier panel about the entrepreneurship, diversification and innovation that is happening across tourism to create what will probably look like a different industry post Covid and post recovery.

International experts say that a full recovery will not happen for at least another two years. We heard earlier about the tension between trying to go back to what we had—because we knew that—and ensuring that we make the most of seasonal and regional spread, which you have commented on.

There is something in this area that is to do with long-term resilience and sustainability. Much focus is placed on long-haul flights and bringing more people into Scotland, but we are likely to see rising fuel and air travel costs, and people might move away from air travel because of the climate emergency.

Do we need to do particular work to make tourism more sustainable in all senses, with regard to how people arrive here; how people with lower incomes, especially families, can afford to take part in activities; how accessible destinations are; different ownership models; and how costs can be met from smaller spends, but more of them? Can you say a little bit about the longer-term sustainability that we need to think of, given both the changes that we know will happen in aviation and the diversification and entrepreneurship that we have heard about?

Thank you. I ask Stephen Montgomery, too, to speak about the rural-urban difference that Marc Crothall identified, if there is one in relation to your sector.

I am interested to hear Leon Thompson’s thoughts.

I am now interested in thinking longer term. International experts are saying that full recovery does not look likely until at least 2024, so I suppose that there is a question about how we deal with the next two years. However, are there discussions in your respective sectors about the fact that full recovery in 2024 will not mean that the sectors will look like what they looked like pre Covid? What innovation, changes or diversification are happening? What pressure points do you need us to focus on to ensure that we have a vibrant and sustainable tourism and hospitality sector in the future, especially if we are thinking about non-pandemic challenges such as the climate emergency?

Good morning, minister, and thank you for your opening remarks. I want to extend the discussion a little around labour and the gaps in skills and training. As you said, it is difficult to predict where some of the gaps are going to be, but there are some clear instances where we know exactly what is needed now and what will be needed in the future. There are some areas where we have clearly identified the problem and the digital skills gap that you have mentioned is one of those areas.

We already know from the construction industry that in order to meet its net zero targets it will need 22,500 additional members in its labour force over the next few years, and we also know that in the just transition away from hydrocarbons, whether that be in energy or other sectors, there will be significant requirements for agility and flexibility.

I have a couple of questions in that respect. First, how do we ensure that we meet the need for the additional workforce numbers in construction? Secondly, with regard to just transition, how do we ensure that the uptake of the skills and training opportunities that we are planning for and which are in train will be effective in delivering the changes that we need?

Thank you—that was really helpful.

Perhaps I can dig a little deeper into your opening remarks, in which you talked about the diversification that many businesses undertook so that they could provide the things that we needed during the pandemic. Obviously there were financial incentives for them to do that as well as a moral imperative. Many of us would argue that there are similar imperatives around just transition.

You said that some people choose to reskill and retrain, perhaps particularly in energy and away from hydrocarbon energy intensive industries. There is a role for the funding and support of training and reskilling, and for courses to enable people to get the skills for the future economy. However, is there also something around incentivising people so that choice becomes easier to make?

There is something about labour market workers feeling that they have no choice and no power in all this. Is there something that we can be thinking about and implementing to support people? We talk about the labour market and the workforce as amorphic things, but they contain people, members of communities and individuals with hopes and dreams. That often gets lost in some of the planning, and sometimes even in the implementation. How do we bridge that gap?

Thank you for that, Chris.

That is really helpful. I see from the chat that Chris Birt wants to come in as well, so I will hand over to him, and then I will ask Angela O’Hagan to come in.

Thank you. That is very helpful.

I know that we have heard a lot, so I am sorry for coming back in. I appreciate that this is potentially a big topic, but I would like the headlines, maybe from Angela O’Hagan.

We are talking about a multiyear resource spending review, and many of us on the committee are interested in how we engage and ensure that we get the right participation from people. Do you have any top tips or key recommendations for us to think about as we look at how to make our budget processes more participative? How can we hear from the voices that we have not been hearing from, in a way that still allows us to analyse data and gather expert evidence? Specifically, I am thinking about that in the context of the multiyear spending review.