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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 21 October 2025
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Displaying 1719 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks; that was helpful. Given the need for quite specific care and attention around access to justice issues, were you involved in the discussions on the development of the second plan? If so, when you made those points, what came back to you? How did we get from the broader scope of the first plan to the smaller, watered-down, less ambitious—that is how it was described this morning—second plan?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you. I know that Avril Hepner wants to come back in.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is really helpful—thank you. Following on from that, are there things in the plan that need to be prioritised and should happen first? I know that, broadly speaking, certain things will happen in the first year or the second year and so on. However, being strategic, and in the mapping or analysis of what is missing, are there things that need to be prioritised?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

It is almost as if mainstreaming only works one way—it does not come back. I will leave it there. Thank you.

09:45  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, and thank you for joining us.

Before I come to my questions, I declare an interest, as, six or seven years ago, I worked for a vision impairment charity that did quite a lot of work across the sensory impairment landscape, including with deaf charities.

I am interested in views on the second national BSL plan, and I will come to Avril Hepner first. We have heard mixed views on that plan. It recognises some of the key issues for BSL users, but there are concerns that it lacks focus and does not have clear, measurable goals or specific outcomes—you have touched on some of that already—and that timelines and accountability are not always clear. There is also criticism that it was watered down from earlier drafts. My question is an open one. What are your views on that second plan, and how have you been involved in its development?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

I put the same questions to Hannah Tweed around views on the second plan, the issues around the lack of measurement and, in essence, the watering down that we have heard about from Avril Hepner. The second plan is smaller in scope and size than the first plan. What are the consequences of that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

No—that response is very helpful. One of our challenges is the disconnect, almost, between good ideas happening but the consequences not necessarily being that meaningful, so your response is helpful to hear.

Alana Harper, I put the same kick-off questions to you. What are your views of the second plan? Where is it good and where are there gaps or issues? What about that point about it having been watered down—not only including fewer recommendations and things to do but being watered down?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you. Alana, do you want to come back in?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Does Lucy Clark want to say anything about the second plan?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Those specific points are helpful, as we will have to make recommendations to the Government after this inquiry.

I am curious about your response to a question that is similar to one that I asked Jemina Napier. Your focus, clearly, is on education and the full suite of concerns around that. What else needs to work for your strategic priorities through the plan to be realised?