The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1943 contributions
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 13 January 2026
Maggie Chapman
Okay—thank you. It does represent a shift in focus for public bodies, where awareness may not be as high as it should be across the board. John Wilkes, who was on the previous panel, said that there might be good understanding of the PSED at the top of certain public bodies but that it may stop at that point and not filter all the way down. However, in our inquiry, we also saw clear examples of where people on the ground understood exactly what they should be doing but they were hampered by processes elsewhere. A shift is needed away from it being a legalistic process.
Minister, you raised this in your opening remarks, but it has been a bugbear of mine for a long time that the fostering good relations pillar is clearly the poor cousin in the three pillars of the PSED. In your conversations with ministerial colleagues, how often do you talk about fostering good relations? Do you talk explicitly about that element of the PSED?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 13 January 2026
Maggie Chapman
My final question follows on from what you said about having people who can get into the middle of things, as it were. In the community discussions that I have been part of, one of the frustrations that I have heard has been about a perceived lack of awareness and understanding among police officers. Attempts by police officers to balance people’s rights and those of different groups might create more conflict, because people might not see police officers acting on racist attacks on people of colour who just happen to be walking past or on much more targeted attacks. How can we bring Police Scotland into some of this work, because police officers are in every community? How can we ensure that the need for balance is not used as an excuse to do nothing?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 13 January 2026
Maggie Chapman
What am I trying to get at here? I am not at all suggesting that this is what you are doing, but I think that it is sometimes easy for regulators and for people who are not politicians to say, “Oh, we can’t get involved in the politics of that.” However, as you have just said, it is the job of us all to ensure that we get involved and have those conversations.
I will change tack a bit. You talked about your work in the higher and further education sector and with the SFC in response to, I think, one of Karen Adam’s question. Given that some of the fertile territory for debate and discussion is in institutions in that sector, how do you see colleges and universities understanding the element of the duty to foster good relations? We have seen some pretty poor examples of understanding, particularly around sex and gender-related issues. How does that element feature in your conversations and work with the SFC and those institutions?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 13 January 2026
Maggie Chapman
It is possibly indicative that there is no shining example. There might be, but I struggle to find one. If you find one, please let us know.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 13 January 2026
Maggie Chapman
I will do.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 13 January 2026
Maggie Chapman
There is a general understanding that that is what we should be doing, but, specifically, how do you see fostering good relations linking to budgetary conversations?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 13 January 2026
Maggie Chapman
Good morning, and thank you for being here. My questions are on balancing protected characteristics and the fostering good relations element of the PSED, but before I come to that, I will pick up on what you both said in your previous answers.
Minister, you said earlier that the PSED is procedural. We heard from the EHRC, which was on our first panel this morning, that there needs to be a shift away from thinking of it as procedural and towards using it as more of a tool. What conversations have you had with EHRC about that? How has it informed your conversations with other public bodies and within the Scottish Government?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 13 January 2026
Maggie Chapman
That is helpful.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 13 January 2026
Maggie Chapman
Thank you. Given that we were talking about SFC matters, I should declare an interest: I am the rector of the University of Dundee,
My next question will cover an issue that you were hinting at there. If we take the notion of how we understand and promote fostering good relations as a tool, how could the Government and local authorities better incorporate it into budget conversations—that is, not only in budget decisions but in all the conversations that lead up to those decisions?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 13 January 2026
Maggie Chapman
Is there also a role for political leadership in this area? How do you see the political context of debates and discussions around race feeding into that? What should we, as parliamentarians, you, as the EHRC, and all of us who have an interest in and a responsibility with regard to the notion of fostering good relations be doing differently?
10:45