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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 1571 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

I have a couple of additional questions. Jen Ang and Naomi McAuliffe were talking about capacity, cognitive development and the range of ages at which certain decisions are allowable or enabled. In previous sessions and at some of the informal private sessions that we have had with trans people themselves, we have heard that some people under the age of 10 are clear that there is something that makes them feel that the expression of their identity does not match with the binary world that they are forced to inhabit, and that binary world comes from a clearly patriarchal system. Are there things that we should be considering along the lines of reforming the GRA in the way that the bill does, or more broadly, around supporting people under the age of 16 who might have questions and be thinking about transitioning but do not have the legal right or other support that would enable them to?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

That is fine, thank you.

I have another question. Catherine, can I come back to you? We heard those people who are not supportive of reform of the GRA speak about its widening the group of people who might be eligible to apply for a GRC. We heard that point this morning and we have seen it in evidence elsewhere.

What is your view on the argument that the reform that we are considering would open up the GRC process to a wider group of people? Do you think that we need to think about any safeguarding or mitigation measures as we consider the bill?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

You talk about the shift from mental disorder to sexual health condition—I think that that is the language that the WHO uses. Why, then, would there be a psychiatric assessment? Why would it be problematic to remove the psychiatric assessment element?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

My final point links something that Malcolm Clark has just said to something that Lucy Hunter Blackburn said in her opening statement. Malcolm, you just said that the proposals under the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill would mean that anyone could get a GRC. Lucy, in your opening remarks, you talked about opening it up to a more diverse or wider group. What do you mean by a wider group?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Jen, do you want to come in on that point about the concerns around opening the application process up to anybody?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Okay. Thank you. I will leave it there for now.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

I have a question on a different topic. We have had some discussion today and previously about the criminal offences elements. Engender’s submission makes specific reference to trying to ensure in the bill that making a false declaration is a criminal offence, as with other statutory self-declarations. That law already exists.

Engender’s submission also expresses concern about criminalising people who choose to detransition. Will Catherine Murphy say a little more about that and about how we can ensure that we are not unintentionally criminalising people who take a decision that turns out to be the wrong one further down the line?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

I would like to bring in Naomi McAuliffe on that and on whether Amnesty has examples or evidence from elsewhere where self-identification is part of the gender recognition process. Have significant numbers of people detransitioned? What have the support processes been, and what issues do we need to consider, given that, as Catherine Murphy said, the numbers are very small? They are lower than the number of people who choose to get divorced, for example.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Naomi, in relation to some of the issues around gender dysphoria, is there any need for the kind of medical gatekeeping that we heard about this morning?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Maggie Chapman

Catherine, we have heard from previous witnesses that not all trans people will have gender dysphoria and that it is not a feature of all trans people’s experiences of their identity. In Engender’s policy and advocacy work, have there been discussions or have you engaged with people who have had a clear problematic relationship with medicalisation and with maintaining such a diagnosis and the psychiatric assessments that go along with it in any gender identity process?