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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 February 2026
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Displaying 2083 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 14 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Amendment 90 is quite simple. A lot of work will be required from local authorities, so amendment 90 calls on the Scottish Government to fund them correctly to ensure that they can carry out any duties that the bill will impose on them.

Amendment 91 is a little different. I can give an example that I used in discussion with the former Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity when she was trying to understand the rationale behind the amendment. Local authorities may have contracts with providers—the example that sprang to my mind was of the contract that is in place to guarantee that a certain amount of waste will go to the energy-from-waste plant in Aberdeen. Some of the things that local authorities will have to do because of the bill will significantly reduce the amount of waste that goes to that plant.

My amendment 91 would ensure that local authorities were not punished for contracts that they put in place beforehand with good intentions and which may have to be revisited because of the bill. That is the simple idea behind the amendment, which would ensure that local authorities were not penalised for something that was put in place out of good will before the bill came into force.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I want to understand a bit more about how “producer takeback” under amendment 212 could work with supply chains that run across the different borders in the United Kingdom. Would that approach be compatible with the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020? Would that have to be investigated a bit further down the line?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Will Maurice Golden concede that, although the new energy-from-waste plant in Aberdeen opened only recently, it had been in the planning since 2016? I declare an interest, in that I am a former councillor of Aberdeen City Council.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I will move it, convener.

Amendment 211 moved—[Douglas Lumsden].

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Will Monica Lennon take an intervention?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

For me, this is not about some of us perhaps not understanding the meaning of those terms or what they might be. The fact is that we are putting them into legislation, so it has to be clear what is meant by “human right defenders” or “relevant policy makers”. That is where the questions arise in my head. People might come along in 10 years’ time, pick up the bill and wonder, “Hold on—am I a human rights defender or not?” That is why what goes into the legislation has to be clear. That is the issue that is being raised, not whether people understand what those terms might be.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I agree with the intent. It is just that what we have in the amendment that you have lodged is, I believe, unworkable. I do not see how it can be brought forward. Amendment 189, in the name of Mark Ruskell, also sounds good, and I think that it is workable, so I am happy to support that amendment.

Graham Simpson mentioned the timescale and whether it should be six months, one year or two years. Mr Simpson is right to point out the already arbitrary two-year target, and the aim is to reduce that time period. I have reflected on the proposal for a one-year period, but what I will say is that, if we are serious about this and if we believe that urgent action is needed, we need to look at the timescales and reduce them as much as possible while ensuring that they remain practical.

11:45  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I am not going to ask where I can buy clothes for myself. I am trying to understand a little bit more about amendment 132 and trying to measure the impact. How could we measure and monitor that? I am really struggling to understand.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Thank you, minister, for taking my intervention.

I often hear about the co-design approach and had thought that it was embedded in the national care service, so I am surprised that the wording of amendment 1 cannot be accepted, although I accept what you said in your latter points on Maurice Golden’s amendment.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Thank you, convener. Amendment 80 is, I think, quite simple; it would just change the reporting period from two and a half years to one year. We often hear talk of the climate emergency and everything else, and, if we are serious about doing this, it is time to, if not turbocharge—I do not want to say that—some of our timelines, then really up the pace. That is why I propose changing the reporting period to 12 months.

I turn to the other amendments in the group. The co-design approach and working with local authorities, which Maurice Golden has mentioned, will be vital for all the work that we are doing, so that is absolutely key. Amendment 190 is about a review by SEPA, which is another key partner, so that is a fairly sensible approach.

Amendment 187, in the name of Bob Doris, sounds good, but, in practice, I think that it would be unworkable. In the lead-up to COP, it was probably a bit easier, because people were getting together anyway. It would be a bit harder to do that when looking at the circular economy strategy.