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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 August 2025
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Michael Marra

That is a significant workforce, which could be addressing these concerns and helping you to deal with issues.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Michael Marra

You said earlier that the change in the delivery timetable, which the convener questioned you about, was to reflect the challenges of a fiscal environment in which we must demonstrate value for money. When did it become apparent to you that we were in a situation in which there are fiscal challenges?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Michael Marra

Perhaps it helps. The issue is that, on Tuesday, you just introduced that figure into the public debate by saying that it was one that you had previously had but then rejected.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Michael Marra

Mr Flannigan, on Tuesday I asked you:

“Do you mean that, if the committee had signed off the original FM, we would potentially have been looking at a bill of £3.9 billion?”—[Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 23 January 2024; c 25.]

Your response was yes.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Michael Marra

Why did you not have an expert advisory group on the development of this work?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Michael Marra

There is an expert advisory group on ending conversion practices, an advisory group on the Patient Safety Commissioner for Scotland Bill, an advisory group on the age of criminal responsibility and an expert advisory group on heat pumps, but you did not think that an expert advisory group was required on this bill. Given what we have just described, could I suggest that perhaps it was?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Michael Marra

On the national care board, you have already mentioned oversight issues. Under current ministerial powers, ministers already have the power to intervene when they see substandard care issues, do they not?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Michael Marra

You and I probably agree on that. What I am asking is why civil servants cannot help you, as the minister, to do that right now, rather than a national care board having to deliver it at the cost of £30 million a year. It is my understanding that you have 170 civil servants working on the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Michael Marra

That is at a cost to the taxpayer of £1 million a month. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Michael Marra

Over the past couple of years, we have still had ministers in front of this and other committees defending the proposals in the original bill and suggesting that they should be backed by the Parliament. When did it become apparent to you that the country did not have the money to pay for the legislation that you introduced to the Parliament?