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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 June 2025
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Displaying 1560 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Thank you for your evidence so far, which is invaluable to the committee. I want to touch, first of all, on the appointment of inquiry chairs, so I will come to you, Lord Hardie. Your CV is one of many decades of distinguished service to Scottish public life. This follows on from Mr Mason’s questions. If somebody had said to you, “This inquiry will take up nine years of your professional life,” would you have said yes to chairing it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Of course, and that is useful. However, with regard to the inquiries that are being set up in Scotland, there seems to be a preponderance—almost a monopoly at the moment—of judge-led inquiries. You are saying that other options are available, so can you speculate as to why so many inquiries are judge led?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Are you aware, through conversations, of members of the judiciary having turned down requests to chair an inquiry on the basis of how long it might take?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

You described the situation that led to the tram inquiry as a “public scandal”. Some of the fallout of your inquiry has been that people think that part of the issue with the trams in the first place was the huge delays and cost overruns, and then they look at the inquiry and say, “It’s gone on for nine years, with huge delays and cost overruns.” Does that slightly undermine the inquiry’s credibility? Were you concerned about that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Do you think that the explanation that Mr Flannigan has just given would be understandable to the public, minister?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

For clarification, minister, is it correct that the bill no longer establishes a national care service?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

That is useful. There is already some language in terms of civil servants, names of departments and so on. I understand that changing those might not be a priority, but, for clarity and for the public, I note that you started out by saying that you want there to be transparency as to those who are accountable. It is important to recognise that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Okay. That is useful.

In your opening remarks to the convener, you said that the state of the financial projections is a function of the bill being at stage 2 rather than at stage 3. You have to recognise that we cannot evaluate a financial memorandum on that basis. Financial memorandums are presented at the start of the scrutiny of a bill, with projections. We look at them and consider whether they are realistic, and we ask the kind of questions that the convener has been asking. We cannot just have a blank cheque, waiting for what might happen at stages 2 and 3. That is not a reasonable position, is it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

There are other reasons why you have been back in front of the committee. One of your predecessors, Kevin Stewart, objected to the idea that the bill might cost up to £1.2 billion. We then had evidence from civil servants and from you that it could cost up to £3.9 billion. The range of figures that you have brought to the committee over the past several years has been staggering, given the difference between them and the lack of clarity. We are still in a position, now, where we are referencing three different sets of documents across different timeframes in trying to understand what the variety of cost impacts might be. Do you think that that is being transparent to the public?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

You started by saying to the convener that you have to be accountable to the public. Do you think that the public could understand that variety of different documents and the fact that we are comparing them? For instance, the original financial memorandum was extrapolated over 10 years, with a sum of £1.8 billion to £3.9 billion, but the new financial update covers seven years, with a cost of £436.6 million to £724.8 million. Even the timeframes over which you are undertaking the analysis are not comparable. Is there a reason for that?