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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 August 2025
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

There are other reasons why you have been back in front of the committee. One of your predecessors, Kevin Stewart, objected to the idea that the bill might cost up to £1.2 billion. We then had evidence from civil servants and from you that it could cost up to £3.9 billion. The range of figures that you have brought to the committee over the past several years has been staggering, given the difference between them and the lack of clarity. We are still in a position, now, where we are referencing three different sets of documents across different timeframes in trying to understand what the variety of cost impacts might be. Do you think that that is being transparent to the public?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

You started by saying to the convener that you have to be accountable to the public. Do you think that the public could understand that variety of different documents and the fact that we are comparing them? For instance, the original financial memorandum was extrapolated over 10 years, with a sum of £1.8 billion to £3.9 billion, but the new financial update covers seven years, with a cost of £436.6 million to £724.8 million. Even the timeframes over which you are undertaking the analysis are not comparable. Is there a reason for that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

So, it costs about 10 per cent less than it did. However, the bill is a fraction of the size that it was and its ambition is significantly less than it was—part 1 was deleted entirely. I understand that there is no direct relationship between the number of words in a bill and the number of civil servants who work on it, but the bill is a significantly different beast from what it was. Could the committee have clarity on that monthly cost? It would be fine for that to be given in writing.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Do you think that the explanation that Mr Flannigan has just given would be understandable to the public, minister?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Mr Pugh, how would you describe your role in relation to acting on behalf of health boards in the Covid inquiry? What are you attempting to achieve for your clients?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

When you talk about the fairness of the procedure, is that about the liabilities of a health board for decisions that it might have taken and wanting to keep it aware of how the issues and evidence that are raised might pertain to future legal action?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

I would have thought that a lot of the public who were viewing the Covid inquiry would have found it to feel quite adversarial, with Jamie Dawson KC standing there and asking very pointed questions of a variety of different people. I am not denying the part about getting to the truth, but if you have lots of interested parties who are fighting for their own protection, does it really help us to get to the truth?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Other packages are available. Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Thank you for your evidence so far, which is invaluable to the committee. I want to touch, first of all, on the appointment of inquiry chairs, so I will come to you, Lord Hardie. Your CV is one of many decades of distinguished service to Scottish public life. This follows on from Mr Mason’s questions. If somebody had said to you, “This inquiry will take up nine years of your professional life,” would you have said yes to chairing it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Of course, and that is useful. However, with regard to the inquiries that are being set up in Scotland, there seems to be a preponderance—almost a monopoly at the moment—of judge-led inquiries. You are saying that other options are available, so can you speculate as to why so many inquiries are judge led?