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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 August 2025
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Given the evidence that we heard in the previous session, I wonder whether the three of you might agree that it is not really appropriate for a very eminent member of your profession, appointed to this position, to spend a large amount of time looking for an office and internet connections. Is that a waste of public money?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

We have been hearing about the adversarial nature of some of these inquiries, where there is an eminent KC standing in front of what is, in essence, a courtroom and asking for evidence from an individual and putting them on the stand about decisions that might have been made and where those might have flowed from. It is about whether that is the right model. If we have people like you who are employed—rightly, within this model; I do not deny that—to protect the interests and liabilities of a set of people as they may pertain to future legal action, as well as the inquiry that they are in, does that not run against some of your first premise, of assisting the inquiry?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

My definition or interpretation of “adversarial” is probably not the strict legal interpretation. “Aggressive” might be another way to describe it. I will rest on that.

The last area that I will ask about is the application of artificial intelligence in these kinds of inquiries. We have heard so far in evidence about the huge amounts of documentation that are involved. Have you seen AI triaging of large document sets in public inquiries?

13:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

I tend to agree with that. Have you seen any other examples of the use of AI in public inquiries?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Have you seen any of those systems being used for redaction? Lawyers might have to do large-scale redaction across many thousands of documents, and we have heard in evidence that there are significant resource implications of AI being used to identify names and particulars and to carry out redaction on a mass basis. Have you seen that, Mr Clancy?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Indeed.

Like Liz Smith, I must declare an interest because of my involvement with the Eljamel inquiry. I have constituents who are involved in that, and I have had conversations with ministers about the setting up of the inquiry. Some of the delays in that respect are to do with finding a chair—that is, waiting for the Lord President to find somebody of standing, such as you, to take the inquiry on. Is there not a risk that nine-year inquiries result in more people saying, “I would love to do this, but no thanks. I’d also like to spend the time with my grandchildren”?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

For clarification, minister, is it correct that the bill no longer establishes a national care service?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

That is useful. There is already some language in terms of civil servants, names of departments and so on. I understand that changing those might not be a priority, but, for clarity and for the public, I note that you started out by saying that you want there to be transparency as to those who are accountable. It is important to recognise that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Michael Marra

Okay. That is useful.

In your opening remarks to the convener, you said that the state of the financial projections is a function of the bill being at stage 2 rather than at stage 3. You have to recognise that we cannot evaluate a financial memorandum on that basis. Financial memorandums are presented at the start of the scrutiny of a bill, with projections. We look at them and consider whether they are realistic, and we ask the kind of questions that the convener has been asking. We cannot just have a blank cheque, waiting for what might happen at stages 2 and 3. That is not a reasonable position, is it?