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I agree that it is not just about being a woman of colour and the only minority in the group. I have voiced that because women of colour have come to me, but other women and girls have come to me, too. It is not just about faith and religion; it is about decency.

I want to probe this a little more, because I know that you work on the Scottish ethnic minority older people forum. I also know that sometimes you may not be able to speak directly on behalf of Age Scotland because—and I am going to be honest when I say this—there is fear about talking about these issues in a lot of organisations. Could you give your personal view?

I know the sort of people—I am going to respectfully call them aunties and uncles—who come to forum meetings and do really good work. You mentioned that earlier, and I have also heard about them bringing community groups together so that they can respond to many of the issues that we have spoken about today.

I certainly know that there are no unisex toilets in a gurdwara, a mosque or a mandir. There are toilets for males and females, and there is sometimes another toilet that can be used by non-binary or disabled people—or whatever the need is at the time. Do you feel, in the religions that we and other faiths practise—again, religion is a protected characteristic—that it is quite clear how we achieve a balance in that regard with other characteristics under the Equality Act 2010, in terms of single-sex services and biological males and females?

Good morning. This is a question for Jatin Haria. The Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights has said that its research strongly suggests that the guidance that is produced by the EHRC

“is not being widely used either for development or quality assurance purposes within listed bodies”,

going on to say that the EHRC’s

“enforcement activities do not appear to be effective.”

The EHRC, for its part, has said that it has yet to have

“sight of draft regulations from the Scottish Government on ethnicity and disability pay gap reporting”.

Is it not clear that the Scottish Government is not doing enough?

Jatin, my question is about balance. Those characteristics are all protected under the Equality Act 2010. Sex is protected—female and male—and there are eight other protected characteristics. How would you translate that to get balance? Outside here, those things are happening to women live, every single day. It is so important for the women who are listening, who want an answer about what will happen. Should they not work for the NHS? You mentioned earlier that, in relation to teachers, if people do not see someone of colour, they are not going to be comfortable, or they might not think that the profession is for them. There are so many inequalities, but this inequality is right here in our faces. Will those people not be employed by the NHS? Will they think that the profession is not for them?

Can you answer the question on balance?

No—that is fine, thanks.

That was very helpful. I will certainly be asking the Scottish Government about this next week.

I want to talk about not only toilets but facilities in general. We are not talking only about need, but about religion. My parents came to Scotland and I was born here, in Glasgow, and I think that equality should be there for everybody and needs should be addressed for everybody—I absolutely agree with that. However, we are talking about breaking a religion here. If I was in a changing room with my mother or Muslim auntie and she had to change in front of a biological male, that would break our religion. There are many consequences for that in the Muslim faith, in Indian faith and in other faiths that I could mention. How can we have balance in that regard? That is what this question involves.

I acknowledge what you are saying about need but, right now, people out there are really confused. It is not just about women and girls; it is about faith and religion. There is so much going on out there and nobody knows where the guidance is or who is guiding who. People from all backgrounds—not just religious backgrounds—are confused.

How do you see those issues? It is not just about toilets. I know for a fact that a Muslim woman cannot go into a changing room and change in the presence of a trans woman, because that person is a biological male. That view should not offend anybody. It is our religion, and we cannot change that. I am not going to break my religion for somebody else—I will be honest about that. I know how to keep myself safe and keep to my faith.

How do you balance those issues? I know that it is not just women from the older generation who would not go into that room; it is people from the younger generation, too.

The inclusion of single-sex spaces and services is absolutely vital for women, including women from BAME and religious backgrounds. During the passage of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill, I highlighted that many religious women do not feel comfortable being touched by biologically male doctors or nurses who are performing examinations such as smear tests or breast examinations.

As our witnesses will know, the national health service employs many women from BAME backgrounds. Now, they will also be made to feel uncomfortable—especially given what happened to Sandie Peggie and how she has been treated—changing in front of a biological male. Doing that would mean that they would break their religion, which, by the way, is also a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010. Would that mean that all those women would have to go through a tribunal?

I need to ask about this, because I do not understand it. On the one hand, the public are given separate rooms for prayers but, on the other hand, single-sex facilities are taken away. That defeats the purpose of promoting equality. You will know that women of faith need to use those facilities before their prayers, without the presence of a biological male. Should it be mandatory for all public bodies to offer single-sex spaces and services?

Enough on what I have just asked about: enforcement activities.

Who do you feel is not doing their job?