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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 713 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good afternoon and thank you for your opening statements and the evidence that you have provided. I want to go back to the issue that Pam Duncan-Glancy has just asked about and probe it a little bit more.

Sandy Brindley, you have talked about single-sex spaces and service providers, and you have said that the bill will not impact the services that are provided or the single-sex spaces that we can go into. Can you help me to understand how the bill will work in that respect? If someone from the Muslim faith or the Indian faiths uses a single-sex space—or their daughter, mother, auntie or whoever goes into such a place—they will not know who is in the bathroom, say, when they go in to use that space. When they look around, see a person and think that they are female, that is it—it is okay. However, if they saw something different in there, how would you work around that to make it safe for them? How can you say to the Muslim community or most of the Asian community that they are safe to go into bathrooms, when the bill opens up the possibility for a lot more people to have a GRC?

I raised the issue of doctors with the earlier panel of witnesses. A couple of weeks ago, I asked some witnesses whether, if a doctor is trans, they have to tell an Asian—or any—female that they are, and I was told that they do not have to. The doctor would therefore be breaking the woman’s religion, because the woman would not see or know that—unknowingly, her religion would be broken. Can you help me understand how the practicalities of the bill would work in that respect?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Kate and Malcolm, is there anything that you want to add?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

On that point, Sandy, how do restaurants and bars that have single-sex toilets police them and keep bad-faith actors from accessing them?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

That is what I am asking you. If the bill was passed, would it not make things harder for providers with regard to the justification that people would have to give? I am not for or against this—I am just asking how that would work.

Your answer was fine. Is anybody able to answer the medical side of the question?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I want to go back to talk about how the bill would affect other countries. I am interested in hearing a bit more on the effect that reform of the GRA could have on participation in cross-border sporting competitions. Do you expect that moving to a system of self-declaration would conflict with the guidance set out in other countries, either in the UK or abroad? How would that work? We have talked a lot about Scotland but how do you see a reformed GRA working within the UK and other countries?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Yes.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you for your opening statements. You have touched on this, but will you go into a little more depth on how you see the self-ID policy working across sports, from the grass roots to the competitive elite levels? What evidence base is there on the impact of testosterone on performance?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

The consideration of cost does not explicitly factor in the development of additional careful consideration of applications from children, sensitive investigation, or even face-to-face applications. You also stated in your response that it is unclear whether National Records of Scotland currently has the expertise to undertake such a role, and that it is likely to require additional specialised staffing. Has the provision of support been hastily thought about, with no real consideration of the potential costs and of the services that will be provided?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning to the panel and thank you for your opening statements. Going back to the mechanisms and the process, the commissioner’s response to the consultation highlighted that there is no mechanism in the proposed reform for setting out how an individual child’s understanding of the process and its consequences would be assessed. Does that concern still stand?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Malcolm, do you want to add anything?