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My bill sets out a provision for education. With regard to what that education would look like, I have said that it would be about domestic abuse. On how it would be delivered and what it would look like, it will be important, again, that the right sort of consultation is undertaken with the right authorities—the right people and the experts—to ensure that the provision is implemented. The onus is on the Scottish Government to ensure that the provision is taken forward—that is why my bill is there. As I said, I am sure that the Scottish Government will be open to consultation in order to shape what that education will look like.

I will start by saying a bit about the financial side. We are talking about a maximum cost of £23 million, which is only 0.5 per cent of the justice budget. In my opening statement, I mentioned that domestic abuse costs the public sector £7 billion over a three-year average period of abuse. We should also not forget, when we talk about domestic abuse in monetary terms, that we are talking about real people. Even one person going through domestic abuse is one too many, and we know that many have lost their lives. The money will be very well spent.

We talk about a figure of £23 million, but that is the highest amount. As we go through the bill, members will see that there are certain things for which we can look at mitigating costs as we go along. You mentioned the costs around part 1 of the bill, but part 1 is essential and important. I have spoken to many survivors—I have spoken to the organisations, too—and not one survivor said to me, “Pam, we don’t need this so-called notification” or register, as one might call it.

Notification is important because right now, to be honest, if I were not a politician, I certainly would not know anything about any disclosure scheme or anything in that respect. I know about that only because I am a politician and I am doing the work. I will describe a scenario that might play out. If I was a survivor and I was experiencing domestic abuse, I would not know to pick up the phone and to look for a disclosure scheme. I would be domestically abused, and the abuse would carry on. Coming from a BAME background, and having friends from other backgrounds, I know that the abuse continues on and on.

Having a lifeline, and knowing that somebody out there—the authorities, whether it is MAPPA or the police—has a little bit more information than I do, might save my life. The notification provisions in part 1 would require that the information has to be provided by the offender. That has never been done before, as far as I know, in any legislation to do with domestic abuse. The offender would have to go into a police station or to a member of police staff to give the information that their circumstances have changed. That could save somebody’s life. I believe, therefore, not only that the bill is a lifeline, but that the notification scheme would give victims a feeling that there is extra safeguarding, and that there is somebody else out there looking out for them so that they will be notified.

Last but not least, the bill could be a deterrent. Who wants to be on a so-called notification database or register? We know that it could act as a deterrent, in a similar way to the sex offenders register.

I have got all that information from my consultations. I went out to do personal, informal consultations: one in 2024, and then the main consultation; the committee has that information in front of them.

I did not take the decision to introduce the bill at all lightly, convener. I hope that I have answered your questions.

That is a good question. I mentioned in my opening statement and in my answer to the convener what happens with the disclosure scheme. It is a good scheme, and my bill would work closely with it and with MAPPA. However, I have spoken to survivors, and I am aware that people who have been domestically abused but do not know about the scheme will not know that they can contact the police in that regard.

Although the police have some—I stress “some”—names of certain sex offenders and more serious offenders, my bill will bring out more extensive knowledge on people who will have to give that information, which the police will hold. That will better protect victims, because, at the moment, they do not know that they can contact anybody. We are making sure that the police contact them, based on the limited information and knowledge that they have. I mentioned earlier that 3,000 offenders would be added to MAPPA. That information will enable the police to act fast. We can save lives out there.

I have been speaking to survivors, and the disclosure scheme has been letting them down. Although, as I said, I respect it and believe that it works, we need that extra layer of protection. Knowledge is key to saving somebody’s life. That is why part 1 of the bill, on notifications, is important. We just cannot let people think that they can rely on saying, “Somebody is going to save my life if I have been domestically abused.” We need more information and more knowledge out there, because the statistics are very high right now.

Charlie Pound might want to add to that.

I know that you are very passionate about this issue, Mr Macpherson. There is also one organisation in the BAME community that we have spoken about, and I know that you know the subject well.

You have said that 2022 to 2025 is a long time, but we are talking about the parliamentary process around bills. I have to thank the non-Government bills unit, which did a lot of work very quickly on this. It was important to me that, at every point between 2022 and 2025, I gave organisations and survivors opportunities to contribute.

Around twice a week, I get a phone call in my office from somebody asking me for help, and I pass them to the correct authorities or charities. People think that I am going to be a lifeline for them, and I hope that I am.

You are absolutely right that the committee is here to scrutinise legislation, and I am here so that you can do so. I am quite open minded today and I will take away all the feedback from committee members. I will also look at what else we can add to the bill when we get to the later stages.

You asked about the kind of engagement that I have carried out. I have done quite a lot, and I had a chance to meet—

I will start on that, then pass over to Charlie Pound, who can cover the technical points.

I saw a lot of domestic abuse around me when I was growing up—not in my family, but among other friends and relatives. I have spoken to organisations and survivors, and Dr Marsha Scott from Scottish Women’s Aid—I think it was her; I will correct the record if I am wrong—asked me what happens with the women who have to retaliate to protect themselves and end up being subject to the notification or inclusion on the so-called register. That was also mentioned to me by somebody else.

When I was drafting the bill, I had to consider that and ensure that serious offenders and re-offenders were covered. The bill must take into account the issue of women—I use the word “women” but also put it on the record that the bill covers men and women, male and female—who are in the situation that was described to me. I listened to organisations and made sure that the bill was changed. It started off quite wide, because it was important that everything was in it, but I made sure that I listened to the experts, which is why the focus was narrowed.

That is what I was going to say—I had a meeting with Angela Constance, and the cabinet secretary—

I think that it was last year—I would have to check.

Mr Macpherson, I have not done nothing. Those three years were crucial for those survivors and organisations.

You did not let me finish speaking about my engagement with the Government, so I will go on with that. I will come back to the committee to give exact details of my meetings—I am sorry that I cannot completely remember what happened during all three years. I am sure that many women—especially those of my age—cannot remember exactly what they did three years ago, but I can tell you that I have been very vocal. I have not just hit newspapers. I have listened to survivors and organisations. In my engagement with the Scottish Government, I lodged written questions, asked questions in the chamber and spoke in debates. I also debated other subject areas, not just those directly to do with domestic abuse, where I could bring in the issue of domestic abuse. For example, I looked at lodging an amendment to the Housing (Scotland) Bill on domestic abuse.

There were many other things that I cannot remember at this moment, but I am happy to give a full account of them to the committee and to you in writing. I have fully engaged all along. Indeed, today, at 11 o’clock, I will meet the Minister for Victims and Community Safety, Siobhian Brown. I have fully engaged and I respect the Scottish Government and our procedure in the Parliament. I hope that the point has been answered.

Thank you for the question, Ms Dowey. I have the letter from the minister right here. I have read it; please give me a couple of minutes to give my response to it.

The Scottish Government’s response to the introduction of my bill was disappointing but not surprising. I strongly contest the minister’s claims about the affordability of my proposals. The Scottish Government has already passed, in this parliamentary session, a bill that sets out throughcare standards for prisoners, and part 2 of my bill would strengthen those provisions for domestic abuse offenders throughout the justice system. Indeed, in her letter to the committee, the minister refers to the fact that consideration of rehabilitation programmes can already be passed on to the Parole Board for Scotland when a prisoner is being considered for release. Therefore, my bill does not propose an unprecedented expansion of rehabilitation assessment.

Similarly, part 1 of my bill, on the register, largely replicates an existing system, but it would expand it to domestic abuse offenders. It cannot be the case that a bill that is modelled on legislation that is already operating in Scotland is unaffordable if the Scottish Government already funds that policy. If the Government is questioning the effectiveness of my proposed register, as it appears to be doing in the letter, why has it not sought to repeal the Sexual Offences Act 2003, which has been in effect for the entire 18 years that the Scottish National Party has been in government?

My bill is fully intended to work with existing schemes such as MAPPA and the disclosure scheme, as I said earlier. In fact, my bill would strengthen those schemes, because it would increase the amount of intelligence that would be available to police officers, thereby allowing them to act to keep victims safe.

On part 3 of the bill, I welcome the fact that the Scottish Government acknowledges that “more work is required” in that area. Although I note that its preference would be to use non-legislative measures to address the problem of a lack of data on domestic abuse in Scotland, the fact remains that the issue has been neglected for far too long. By legislating to guarantee data collection on domestic abuse, we would ensure that the Government took action on the problem.

On part 4, my approach to ensuring that domestic abuse education is provided across Scotland would give schools plenty of opportunity to help to develop standards for such education. Under my bill, local authorities would be required to be consulted, so they would be key partners in delivering on the policy ambition.

Despite the Scottish Government’s scepticism about my proposals, I will make it an offer: last weekend, it was reported that the Government is having to indefinitely postpone the implementation of its flagship Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Act 2021 because of drafting errors. That legislation was supposed to protect women but, four years after it was passed, it is protecting no one, because it was so poorly drafted that it cannot legally be implemented. Therefore, I offer the Government the opportunity to use my bill to make the necessary amendments to the 2021 act so that it can be fully implemented, to help to protect victims of domestic abuse. I hope that the Government will consider my offer. As I said, I will be speaking to the minister later this morning.

I hope that that answers your question. I have gone through the whole letter; I recognise everything that the minister said, and I hope that I have responded to it.

And also girls. I know that, on some occasions, there can be a minority of cases that involve the other sex.