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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Displaying 1200 contributions
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Paul O'Kane
I have a brief follow-up question. Much discussion of costs has taken place in recent weeks, in this committee and other committees that are scrutinising the proposed legislation. Are you concerned about the cost of transferring the staff in setting up new services? Is that a worry for local authorities?
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Paul O'Kane
Is there a danger in legislating for a national care service before we have the detail of that review? Should those aspects have been in the bill in the first place?
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Paul O'Kane
I wonder whether I can return us to the way that the bill came about. We have heard a lot about co-design after the framework bill is passed and we have heard a lot about that co-design being done through regulations.
My sense, across all the contributions here today and more widely, is that there are things that could be dealt with right now using existing powers in relation to pay, terms and conditions and the recommendations in the Feeley review and the Fair Work Convention, and that it might have been better to sit down and co-design something in a meaningful way before we got to the legislative process.
Is it fair to say that that is the position of trade union members and that that is why there is a call to pause the bill? Do you feel that it would have been better to do the co-design up front and to have a meaningful discussion about what that would look like?
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Paul O'Kane
I find it extraordinary that no one approached the trade unions and said that that would potentially be the process.
I will ask about finance. A massive structural change such as we are discussing brings with it a financial burden. There has been a lot of comment in this committee and others about the financial memorandum that accompanies the bill—we have heard it being referred to as a blank cheque. I am keen to get your sense of what that could mean when it comes to the local authorities’ finances.
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Paul O'Kane
Good morning. I will direct my questions to Alison Bavidge and Colin Poolman because they are relevant to their submissions. In its submission, the SASW said:
“As it stands, this Bill is unlikely to deliver improved quality and consistency of social work services.”
In its submission, the RCN said:
“the Bill will not achieve”
its
“purpose without the Scottish Government first tackling the workforce crisis across health and social care”.
Given the answers to the convener’s question, does the process seem to be back to front? Should there have been more input into the framework legislation in order that things could have been put in the bill that could affect the issues that you spoke about in your submissions? Should we then have looked at how to go forward from there?
09:15Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Paul O'Kane
Sure. I was just quoting back to you the concerns in your submission about delivering quality and consistency and asking whether you would rather have seen more detail in the bill. You mentioned putting things in the bill, but could you expand on what could have made a difference?
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Paul O'Kane
Prior to the introduction of the bill, should there have been a broader discussion about the roles of the SSSC and the Care Inspectorate, and where they sit in relation to and interact with—the dotted line between them—a national social work agency? Is there enough detail on that, or do we need to do more thinking around that? Should there be a broader discussion about that after the bill is dealt with?
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Paul O'Kane
Thanks for those responses.
Roz Foyer, you spoke about a democratic deficit in the current system, given how it is set up. Are you concerned that the transfer of decision-making power up to national level will increase the democratic deficit? Should IJBs or care boards be democratised by the inclusion of voting reps from the trade union side, or who are carers or patients with lived experience?
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Paul O'Kane
In the initial questions, we started to touch on many of the issues about the transfer of staff, and the concerns that trade unions have about the number—75,000—and the potential knock-on effects. I will therefore focus on your involvement and understanding of that process—in particular, on TUPE. When were trade unions consulted by the Government on the idea that the bill might involve such a transfer of staff, and that it might involve a TUPE process?
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Meeting date: 15 November 2022
Paul O'Kane
Okay.