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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 August 2025
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Displaying 1072 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

Thank you, convener, and thanks to the panel for indulging me again.

Co-design is to be at the heart of the process, and, as we understand it, there will be an element of co-design in, if you like, the secondary stages of the bill. Do you feel that that was the right way to go about this, or would you rather have seen more co-design at the front end, before we reached the legislative stage?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

I am interested in the transition from childhood to adulthood, and the associated services. There is a member’s bill on that issue and there are Government bills going through Parliament that relate to a lot of issues that are to do with what we are talking about. Might it be better to capture some of the elements of those bills in this legislation? Is there an opportunity to do that? Frank McKillop and Andy Miller have been close to some of the work on those bills, so I would like them to respond to that first of all.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

I suppose that when the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman was before the committee she would have raised concerns about duplication of processes, if we had gone for a new national complaints procedure. The Scottish Social Services Council and the Care Inspectorate would probably say similar things.

Would the intention be that there would be a requirement to resource a new national complaints service—in essence, to spend money at national level on people to handle complaints, do an investigation and then feed back to whoever was providing the care? Is that the vision that has come through the consultation?

I know that Community Integrated Care said that there was concern that taking the complaints process out of the local context is perhaps not helpful. If there is time, perhaps Karen Sheridan might want to comment on that.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

We are probably talking about people who would be seen as gatekeepers in the process—those in social work departments, among others, who function as commissioners. Does logic suggest that it would be better for that role to sit with a national body than for it to sit locally?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

Sure. We were talking about the complaints system, and I had noticed that Community Integrated Care said in its submission that responding to a complaint as close as possible to where the issue has occurred, at the local level, is important—I am paraphrasing, obviously. Does Karen Sheridan have a comment on the importance of locality in the complaints procedure?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

It is important to pull some of those threads together. Is there an opportunity in the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill to do that? Obviously, it is a Government bill, and we would not want to lose sight of some of those elements that are broadly supported by the learning disability sector and others.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

That follows on from Frank McKillop’s point about social work. There is a debate—we have heard evidence on both sides of the argument—about whether social work and children’s services should be in or out of the scope of the NCS. Is it important that the social work profession stays together, whatever the end point is, because of what has been said about transitions?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

Good afternoon. We have had useful opening comments on the general principles of the bill, but I want to ask about what is actually in the bill. It provides for the transfer of accountability from local authorities to the Scottish ministers. What is your view on that concept and on the risks and benefits therein? I ask Mhairi Wylie to start.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

No, convener, I will let Evelyn come in.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

There is a commonality about co-design being part of the process. Andy, what is your vision for the involvement of people with disabilities, and particularly learning disabilities, in co-design? How do we ensure that they are involved?