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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 May 2025
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Displaying 1008 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Paul O'Kane

Convener, would you like me to move on to the national care service?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Paul O'Kane

Following on from that point, the cabinet secretary has outlined his 48p and lower pay rise this year for care staff. In the evidence that we have heard in this committee around the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill, there has been a lot of criticism about the process and about this being focused on structural change. He has already referenced the financial memorandum and the commentary of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. Does he not acknowledge that this is the opportunity to pause on the bill, to take account of all of that criticism and to look at how we deal with the immediate pressures in this financial year, and then to make a plan going forward that brings all of the partners who have significant criticisms around the table?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Paul O'Kane

In that vein of being constructive and helpful, I do not think that what I have said is a surprise to the cabinet secretary, given that, in our robust discussions in the chamber and elsewhere, I have called for a pause for some time. If he is willing to have that consideration, that is welcome, and I hope that he will respond to COSLA, trade unions, front-line staff and others who are calling for that dialogue prior to the legislation going through its stages.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Paul O'Kane

Is the cabinet secretary confident that, when we come back round this table to discuss these issues six months to a year down the line, significant progress will have been made, particularly in those three boards? Does he expect them to have returned to a position of having those usual financial controls?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Paul O'Kane

I am keen to start with the sustainability of management of finances within NHS boards. Audit Scotland previously highlighted a lack of stable senior leadership, with high turnover and short-term tenure. When we went through this session last year, we discussed some similar issues. Therefore, it would be good to know what progress the cabinet secretary feels has been made on financial stewardship within boards and whether he feels that more has to be done to tackle those issues.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Paul O'Kane

Given the acute situation that we find ourselves in and the announcements that the cabinet secretary will make later this afternoon, that detailed piece of analysis on the benefit of increasing pay should stand alone and be done by the Government. I am sure that the cabinet secretary intends to make an announcement containing further detail about the beds that he will purchase in care homes. That will require a staffing element, and we know about the staffing challenges. It is not just that, because, obviously, there are care at home staffing issues, and I agree with him about terms and conditions. My sense from his previous answers is that we are being told that, four years down the line, the national care service will deliver all of this and we can move the dial. Does he not accept that we need to do more now and look at the issues right now, instead of wishing them away to the national care service?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Paul O'Kane

I will ask about something else that Audit Scotland has consistently raised, which is the impact that multiyear budgeting would have and the adverse impact that a lack of multiyear budgeting has on longer-term financial planning, ensuring that innovation can be planned for and other things that we are keen to see. What is your view on how multiyear budgets might assist in achieving financial stability, and what do you perceive as being the barriers to offering those multiyear settlements?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

Good morning. I will return to the point about the potential transfer of staff and the figure of 74,000, which I think that you described as “rumours”, minister. I think that trade unions, local authorities and front-line staff would contend that the concern about the possibility of 74,000 staff being transferred is legitimately held; however, I appreciate that you said that your view is that wholesale transfer is not envisaged, and you gave the example of a care board being the provider of last resort.

My understanding is that, currently, a council would be a provider of last resort anyway—it currently fulfils that function. If we are in the business of trying to clear up and dispel rumours, are there any other reasons why staff might transfer to a care board?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

I want to go back so that I understand the point about ministerial control as opposed to local control. The minister said that people have told him that they want ministerial control and accountability, and I appreciate that in previous answers he has said that he will communicate to the committee where that evidence came from.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

Okay, but, as the minister knows, people have raised issues around the consultation and how consulted they felt. I am happy to go through the detail of that; I speak to people who have lived experience as well, and some people have raised concerns.

However, I want to get to the heart of this issue. What interests will local authorities have in the delivery of social care if they are not accountable for it? If local authorities do not hold a statutory responsibility for it, then what is their role?