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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 February 2026
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Displaying 1158 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

Does the cabinet secretary recognise that there is a resourcing challenge here? This brings me back to the exchange that we had on local authority budgets. I recognise a lot of what she has said about trying to get some standardisation or commonality of service, if you like, but she will recognise that local authorities often have to make decisions that are based on children having to have higher tariff needs or to be higher on a staged intervention—or STINT—scale, for example. That is because—let us be honest—the resource is often just not there to provide more specialised support, such as individual PSAs, to pupils. She will recognise the resourcing problem that exists in that respect.

I declare an interest: I used to work for Enable Scotland, which, back in 2016 or 2017, authored a report on the presumption of mainstreaming and the 22 steps to inclusion that would be required. I recall John Swinney embracing that report at the time and saying that the Government would take action on a number of its recommendations, which cover what we are discussing today.

That has not happened. Do you have any reflections on that, given how long your party has been in government?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

The cabinet secretary perhaps did not pick up on my point that, 10 years ago, in the previous session of Parliament, organisations were making the same points, particularly around data and around what we do not know.

I appreciate that the cabinet secretary said earlier that she does not want to be bound by the decisions of her predecessors, but what has the Government been doing? We are now, at the end of this session of Parliament, talking about collecting data and reviewing much of the provision, but such calls have been made for 10 years or more.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

Would the cabinet secretary accept that, with the presumption to mainstream, people were ringing alarm bells about their concerns about inclusion and making sure that young people were properly included?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

Good morning. We have a one-year budget, but there are projections beyond that, which will be a challenge for whoever forms the Government. There has been commentary about the potential need for in-year revisions to the budget after the election. The Scottish Fiscal Commission’s estimates show that resource spending on education and skills is projected to decrease each year over a three-year period, falling by £69 million in real terms by 2028-29. What does the cabinet secretary think will be the impact of that future cut and what sits behind that modelling?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

I absolutely understand that point. We will have an election and a new Government will be formed. However, do you recognise that the Fraser of Allander Institute and others have given evidence to the Finance and Public Administration Committee on the problems that have built up over time, and that the stark position in the Scottish Fiscal Commission’s projection will have to be dealt with? Do you recognise that it is a serious challenge that will have to be addressed? What planning have officials in your department done in relation to those projections?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

I am referring to commentary from other people, particularly those who—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

I recognise what the cabinet secretary said about the origin and trying to avoid a political debate. We heard some of that rehearsed earlier when the convener asked his questions. However, does the cabinet secretary recognise that her party has been the governing party for 19 years and that there has been a substantial increase to the Scottish budget, particularly in the last two budget cycles at the UK level? Does she recognise that the forecast of the resource that will be allocated to education is deeply concerning? Does that forthcoming spend not suggest that this Government, in the last months of the current session of Parliament, is deprioritising education?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

In response to a topical question last week or the week before, the cabinet secretary told me that PEF should not be used to plug existing gaps. We heard from Mr Watson about trying to future proof and mainline some of that preventative spend. Does she recognise that those SFC projections for council budgets will inevitably lead to issues such as PEF being used to plug gaps?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

I absolutely recognise a lot of that, but the Scottish Fiscal Commission suggests that council funding is going to drop for many of the services to which the cabinet secretary refers. I have heard her say before that schools are required to do a lot of the scaffolding. If you are going to cut health and social care partnership budgets, social work and other support that sits around that, you will not be able to fill the gap in schools. There seems to be a lack of focus on the reductions to local authority budgets, which will inevitably have an impact.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

That is not what we hear from local authorities.