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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 July 2025
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Displaying 977 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

Thank you. We will take evidence on that later.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

Gillian Booth’s comments in relation to virtual custodies and the difficulties with catching an individual’s situation were really interesting. That was quite similar to some of the evidence that we have received from defence agents, who are in a similar position.

My question is primarily about resources and funding, and about who provides the service. It has come through clearly from the evidence that we have taken this morning that there are significant resource issues and a gap between the kind of service that the witnesses have described—the service that they believe should be provided—and what actually exists now. The main barrier to providing that service is not to do with legislation at all; it is to do with resources and funding.

How do you think that statutory minimum standards of throughcare support will impact on that? I know that there is a desire for central Government to provide that funding. Has any work been done on what it would cost your local authority to provide the kind of service that is being described? Linking in to the debate about the national care service, do you think that those standards will make the outsourcing and tendering of services easier? Do you think that that is part of what the proposals are about? Rhoda, will you come in on that first?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

Social workers have been in attendance in many courts as a matter of routine for many decades now; they talk to the police about who is in the cells, who is coming in and whether they have arrived yet. If the police feel that an individual is vulnerable, they will proactively get in touch with the social worker, and if the sheriff feels that there are vulnerable individuals, they will proactively ask for social work involvement.

You can talk about cuts, but, in the past, a social worker has often been there to fulfil that role; that has been part of the way in which the criminal justice system has worked for many decades. I fully accept that the scale of the cuts in recent years might have led to an erosion of that service, but is it not the case that there have been many occasions in the past when the type of involvement that you are talking about has happened successfully?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

So you are saying that it is a different world, because there are now legal barriers to enabling the kind of involvement that social workers might have had in previous decades. That sort of thing is being prevented from happening now, and that is the reason why the legislation is required.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

Is it not the case that, under the current legislation, there have been many occasions when there has been the kind of social work involvement that you have just spoken about at length?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

Yes. It is a long-standing tradition. Obviously there has been a decade of massive cuts in the public sector, which is a resource issue, but the approach has worked well in the past. If sheriffs do not have the information, they will often ask for it to be provided and, if they do not feel that they have the relevant information, they will continue the case before they make any decision.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

I think that the matter will end up in the courts, because it is a legal issue. I understand that people think that the system does not work and that changes need to be made, but what the committee is looking at is the question whether it is these changes that will deliver. Sharon, do you wish to make any points?

Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, Social Justice and Social Security Committee: Joint Committee

Reducing Drug Deaths in Scotland and Tackling Problem Drug Use

Meeting date: 24 November 2022

Katy Clark

So will we hear more on that?

Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, Social Justice and Social Security Committee: Joint Committee

Reducing Drug Deaths in Scotland and Tackling Problem Drug Use

Meeting date: 24 November 2022

Katy Clark

The task force report contains 20 recommendations and 139 actions. Will you put on record whether you accept all those recommendations and actions, and whether the Scottish Government is going to pursue all of them?

Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, Social Justice and Social Security Committee: Joint Committee

Reducing Drug Deaths in Scotland and Tackling Problem Drug Use

Meeting date: 24 November 2022

Katy Clark

Minister, picking up on the point about your dialogue with Westminster, it is clear that the UK Government is taking a very different approach, which has been far more punitive than the public health approach that is being discussed here today. On the basis of the discussions that you have had so far, what scope is there to be able to do genuinely different things in Scotland? I appreciate that it has been a changing scene in Westminster and that you will meet a different person in December to those you have met before, but where are you in the discussions about having divergence in Scotland and being able to go ahead with some of the things that are within our competence, such as consumption rooms, as well as to consider other initiatives? How do you feel that you are getting on with that? Are you able to focus on specific proposals in your discussions?