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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 September 2025
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Displaying 989 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

I have two questions, if that is okay, convener. The first is on the public safety test in the bill. As we know, that is simply not defined, which could cause a great deal of problems. Have you given any thought to how that test could be defined? If we were to keep it in the bill, how could we define it? I may be putting you on the spot too much now, so I would be quite happy to hear from you afterwards in writing.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

Thank you for that. Does Joanne McMillan have any thoughts on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

You might feel, again, that you are not able to answer my next question. We have heard about the importance of information being provided to the sheriff and the court. In the previous session, we were told that there was better provision of social workers in the courts back in the 1990s and early 2000s. That is quite anecdotal, so there might be great geographical differences in the levels of provision. Are you able to point us towards any evidence or work that has been done on the availability of that support in the courts? It is a resource issue rather than necessarily a legal issue. Do you have any experience of that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

When somebody is already in custody for something else so that there is no possibility that they would be getting released anyway, is that perhaps an example of an exception?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

It was pointed out to us that the interests of children need to be a top priority. To what extent would you get involved in getting sufficient information about that? Would you have to refer to other agencies?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

I think that the problem is that we might end up in the same place, but there might be a lot of appeals before we end up in that place.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 January 2023

Katy Clark

We would be grateful for the information that you refer to.

Professor McAra, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the issue that has just been raised. However, as a committee, we also have to grapple with the black letter of the law. With regard to the bill, we first have to ensure that we agree with the Scottish Government’s overriding policy objectives, and then we have to decide whether what is in the text that will be put to the Scottish Parliament will deliver those objectives. Do you have thoughts on that, too? Do you think that the words that the legislation will contain are likely to be implemented by the courts in the way that the Scottish Government intends?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Virtual Trials and Charges for Court Transcripts (Correspondence)

Meeting date: 11 January 2023

Katy Clark

The evidence that we got from the pilot was that a very small number of cases had gone ahead, but there was a very high number of acquittals. Far more people were found not guilty than we would normally have expected. That was a very small sample, so we could not take much from it. However, the evidence that we have had on domestic abuse cases in particular suggests that virtual trials are leading to more people being found innocent rather than more people being found guilty. The concern had previously been that the accused would not get a fair trial, but the evidence that we have had has, if anything, been surprising, which means that we need even more information before making any further decisions.

As Jamie Greene said, that reinforces the fact that we need to lay down a marker that we will not agree to permanent changes unless the evidence base is there, and that we want to see the evidence over a period of time, because the proposed changes would be permanent and could have major implications for cases.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 January 2023

Katy Clark

Yes, with a greater emphasis on complainers.

When might it be appropriate to remand a person who is accused of a non-violent offence? You spoke about sexual offences and violent offences; are there other situations in which it might be appropriate to remand someone?