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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 July 2025
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Displaying 977 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Katy Clark

I cannot see who would like to come in. Would Ian Tasker like to come in?

10:15  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Katy Clark

My question picks up on some of the evidence that we have already heard. We know that the United Kingdom body is already considering many of the issues discussed. Covid has been mentioned by Norman Provan more than once, and long Covid has been discussed, too. There are obviously significant issues around cancer and other conditions that relate to firefighters, and the issue of women’s occupational health has been strongly emphasised in this evidence session.

It is a concern that, if the proposed council is a scientific body—a committee or body made up of academics—it would simply be duplicating work that is currently carried out by IIAC, without producing different outcomes. We are trying to understand what the added value of the new body might be if it is considering the same issues. Noting what you have said already, do you believe that there would be different outcomes if the composition of the body was different? Are you suggesting that the evidence that would be considered would not be purely scientific, and that there would be other evidence?

I invite Linda Somerville to respond first, as she is representing the STUC.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Katy Clark

No.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Katy Clark

I will ask about how we apply knowledge and the test that SEIAC would apply. There has been mention of reasonable certainty and the double-risk test. How should the test that the council would apply be developed? Would the council itself do that? Does the Parliament need to set it in legislation? Considering other European models, how do you suggest that Scotland approaches developing that test? You might recommend a test or the process by which one might be developed.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Katy Clark

The bill suggests a council of 12 members. Is that the right size? Has anyone given that any thought? That might be something that the STUC has considered, given that it made a submission about the number of trade union representatives who should be involved.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Katy Clark

I will follow up on why a different composition might lead to different outcomes. Presumably, the science would be the same; the council would draw from the same scientific community. From what the witnesses have said, I get the impression that the questions that are put to the scientific community might be different and might be asked decades earlier, but that that might drive research. Is that a fair reflection, or are there additional factors that might mean that there would be a different outcome from the current position?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Katy Clark

I am asking how we can avoid duplication with the work that is going on at a UK level and how we ensure that there is added value. You have covered a lot of that already, but the committee is concerned, in particular, about how we avoid duplication.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Katy Clark

I have a slightly different question about some evidence that we heard earlier. There was a suggestion that there might be fewer personal injury cases if the new body was recommending awards. That might not matter so much in the public sector, where all the money comes out of the same pot, but have you given any thought to how that might affect the private sector? I do not need detailed responses now, but can you point to anything that would help us to ensure that employers take responsibility?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Katy Clark

Perhaps Norman Provan would like to contribute. He has spoken about Covid a couple of times. Norman, do you think that a different composition of the council and a different way of doing things could lead to quicker outcomes or different outcomes?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Katy Clark

Okay, so that would inform decisions that were taken thereafter.