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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 September 2025
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Displaying 991 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Katy Clark

In this session, we are trying to focus on whether a change in the numbers would make a substantial difference. If we put in place a requirement for unanimity, for example, would that make much difference to conviction rates? We do not really have any evidence from this jurisdiction, as far as I understand.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Katy Clark

I have a question about what was said in the previous evidence session. I think that both of you were in the public gallery for that session. It is to do with the Contempt of Court Act 1981 and the fact that we are relying on mock jury research because there is a view that it is not possible to carry out research with real jurors. Have you looked at that? Do you think that that is why there is no academic research on real jurors in Scotland? Do you have any information in that regard?

11:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Katy Clark

I think that Stuart Munro also said that he was not convinced that it was not possible to carry out research and that there had been discussion about it in England. That is a UK-wide piece of legislation, and, because there was a lack of clarity, the UK Government in Westminster introduced legislation to enable research to take place. Is it clear that we cannot carry out research? Is that particular aspect—that narrow issue—something that you have given consideration to? It can be a yes or no answer.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Katy Clark

What you have said is helpful, but it also points out that it is possible to do such research. That has not happened in the lead up—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Katy Clark

Right, so that is one of the reasons why—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Katy Clark

I am not aware of any either, so thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Katy Clark

My first question is for Ronnie Renucci, who focused on the fact that, in Scotland, we lack evidence or, indeed, any research to draw any conclusions, and referred to some work that has been done in England, which we will look at. Mr Renucci, could you summarise your understanding of any conclusions or, indeed, lack of conclusions that there might have been in the work on jurors in England that might be relevant to the legislation that we are looking at now? What is your understanding of that research? I appreciate that you did not do the work yourself.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Katy Clark

Are you sure that the Scottish Government has not looked at that kind of evidence? It may well be that it has carried out that work, and that is how it has come to the proposal of eight out of 12. That figure might have been plucked out of the air, or it might be based on evidence. Have you any knowledge of that? Ronnie Renucci, you suggested that it had been plucked out of the air. Are you sure that it was, or do you think that the decision to settle on that figure might be evidence based?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Katy Clark

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Katy Clark

That is fine. No problem.