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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 July 2025
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Displaying 977 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Katy Clark

Is it fair to say, from what the witnesses have said so far, that different research has come to quite different conclusions in relation to rape myths? Is there any difference between mock jury research and research into real jurors? Can any witnesses expand on that point or give any other explanation as to why different research has come to different conclusions? We have heard a lot about the Scottish jury research, which involved mock jurors. We have also heard that the cases were quite short, and that the amount of time spent by the jurors on the case was quite short compared with a real case. Also, there were only two sets of facts, so there might have been limitations there.

Do you think that it is wise for politicians to base decisions in relation to the abolition of jury trials on research when there is so little clarity? There might be other reasons to get rid of jurors in rape cases—reasons to do with the experiences of witnesses, survivors and complainers, for instance—but would it be unwise to base conclusions around rape myths when the evidence seems so unclear?

Perhaps Cheryl Thomas would want to respond—although the convener will be better placed to see whether the witness wishes to answer.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Katy Clark

No.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Katy Clark

Professor Chalmers kindly attended an event that I held in the Parliament last year on independent legal representation. The witnesses will be aware that a number of other jurisdictions have far more extensive independent legal representation for rape victims or complainers through the trial process and outside the courtroom. That happens in systems that are in many ways similar to the Scottish system. Have the academics looked at that? Do they have views on it?

On independent legal representation, is there scope to look beyond what is proposed in the bill that we are scrutinising? The committee is extremely concerned—it is fair to say that the concern is cross-party—about low conviction rates and, just as importantly, about the experience of rape complainers who have given evidence repeatedly over many years about the retraumatising effect of the criminal justice system and how that system lets them down.

It is often said that the role of the criminal justice system is not to deliver for the complainer—it is a process by the state. We are keen to explore how we improve the experience for complainers. Would independent legal representation and advice provide one way to empower complainers through the process and improve their experience? As Professor Chalmers has looked at the issue previously, I will bring him in first.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Katy Clark

Perhaps Vanessa Munro might have a different perspective.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Katy Clark

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Katy Clark

I want to ask about independent legal representation, in order to put on the record the views of the witnesses and, in particular, those of Sheila Webster, because she has spoken a number of times about the whole judicial process and not just the court element.

Given everything that survivors and rape victims have said about the disempowering nature of the whole process for them, and given its adversarial nature, does Sheila Webster not think that there is a strong case for those people to have advice and legal representation throughout the process, so that they will understand what is going on and their interests will be protected? Perhaps, given the time, Sheila can respond briefly.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Katy Clark

It would be fair to ask Professor Munro if she has anything to add to that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Katy Clark

It happens in many parts of Europe, and indeed in parts of South America and in other jurisdictions, but I appreciate that you may not have looked at those.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Katy Clark

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Katy Clark

Did the review consider whether complainers might be provided with independent legal representation in a wider range of circumstances? You may be aware that, in other jurisdictions in recent decades, legal representation has been introduced throughout the process in some cases. Did the review group consider that, or have you given any thought to it?