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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 22 December 2025
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Displaying 1184 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Katy Clark

I want to ask about drug deaths in custody in prison. There are unacceptably high levels of drug deaths, and no death is acceptable. One witness told us that

“We have not looked enough at the drivers of the increased number of deaths in prisons.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 4 June 2025; c 47.]

It would be interesting to know whether you agree with that statement and to hear your thoughts on what the drivers are. Do the determinations of fatal accident inquiries give us some of the insights that we need? I appreciate that you have already referred to the rise in the strength of the drugs that are in prisons, cabinet secretary—I do not know who would be best to comment on that first.

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Katy Clark

You made that point clearly, right at the beginning of the evidence session. Liam Kerr also raised the issue of overcrowding—we have heard evidence that the boredom that people face and the lack of meaningful activity are another driver that drives people to drugs.

We have heard evidence that toxicology results of drug tests can generally take up to 18 months, which can delay learning. Are you looking at that? Is that an accurate reflection of the situation?

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Katy Clark

That would be extremely helpful. Any further information about delays that could be addressed would be of interest to the committee.

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Katy Clark

I agree that there should not be a gap in hate crime legislation, so it is quite right that the Scottish Government is coming forward with proposals. Leaving aside all the debates around the misogyny bill for now—I appreciate that we may come back to that in relation to new offences and that these proposals are perhaps a different and additional approach—I note that Engender thinks that

“the hate crimes model was not designed to address the nature and scale of”

violence and discrimination against women. Moreover, the working group said that it would be very difficult to prove that a specific act had happened based on sex.

Does the cabinet secretary agree with those points? If so, how has that element been taken into account in the drafting of the SSI? Has there been consideration as to whether it is simply a matter of slotting in the word “sex”, which seems to be the case in the SSI, or whether the matter needs to be addressed in a different way, with further redrafting? Did the cabinet secretary grapple with or have discussions with officials about the issue?

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Katy Clark

That is helpful. It seems that there really is not very much flexibility around that, given how the original legislation was drafted.

Perhaps you have considered, especially given some of the complexity of such issues, how the change will be addressed in the training of the police and other agencies that are responsible for implementing the new provision. Has there been discussion about that?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Katy Clark

It is not just about throughcare—I have raised the experience of prisoners both serving their sentences and coming to their release. There seem to be inconsistencies of approach throughout the estate. Is it fair to say that?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Katy Clark

I want to come in on a different issue.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Katy Clark

Without focusing on the specific example that I mentioned, as it might be an extreme one, can you give us a bit more information about how possession of drugs is dealt with in prisons? It might have all sorts of consequences, including on length of sentence.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Katy Clark

Is the fact that we have such inconsistency of practice due to a lack of resource, or is it a cultural or organisational problem? I do not know whether Suzy Calder has a view on that.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Katy Clark

The committee has met small groups of former prisoners in private to discuss their experiences of drugs in prisons, and one of the people whom we met told us that, originally, he had been expected to serve a nine-year sentence but, in reality, had served 27 years in prison due to drug issues and drug use. Do you recognise that scenario? Will you tell us a bit more about how possession of drugs is dealt with in the prison system? Perhaps Linda Pollock might be the best person to come in on that.