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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 September 2025
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Displaying 989 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Katy Clark

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Katy Clark

My questions, which are perhaps best directed at Laura Buchan or Emma Forbes, focus on the right to a fair trial and on ensuring that we prevent miscarriages of justice.

I believe that some of the early pilots required agreement from both sides for virtual attendance, but I do not believe that that is what is being proposed here. We know that a lot of professional evidence is disputed, and we know, too, that the courts have not always accepted police evidence. We really should have a system in which, for example, early pleas are encouraged and cases are fully prepared to enable that to happen. Moreover, if witnesses are expected to go through a trial to which there is a guilty outcome, the inconvenience to them of having to travel what are sometimes very considerable distances should be taken into account in sentencing. Do you see advantages in, say, police giving evidence in person to ensure that that evidence is tested? In what kinds of scenarios do you think that evidence should be given in person?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Katy Clark

What test will be applied by the court when the defence objects?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Katy Clark

I presume that the test that the court would apply would be whether it would be in the interests of justice for a witness to give evidence remotely or in court.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Katy Clark

There is no further test. Are there no other criteria set out in the bill?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Katy Clark

Uprating of benefits and changes to the levels of fines are defined and narrow issues for the Parliament to consider, and they often relate to increases in the cost of living and people’s wages. However, it would have been possible to put a great deal more detail in the Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Act 2022, for example, and in some criminal justice legislation, but the Scottish Government chose not to go down that path. That approach can make it difficult for the Criminal Justice Committee to ascertain exactly what the Government is proposing, so we have to consult and scrutinise on the basis of what we think the Government is likely to do.

Often, the Government does what we guess it will do and what we think is most likely. However, do you agree that the whole point of scrutiny is to scrutinise specific proposals and that currently, in many situations, such detail is not in primary legislation? In those situations, should there be scope for an enhanced scrutiny process for secondary legislation?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Katy Clark

You are open to looking at that. That is great.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Katy Clark

As we all know, people tend to work to deadlines. When we ask for specific regulations or a specific document, the Parliament is often given the explanation that that information is not ready yet. That is a cultural issue in relation to how we organise ourselves. Would it be possible, in some situations, to have stricter requirements on draft regulations being available at an earlier stage?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Katy Clark

One reason that you have given in justification of the current approach is about the capacity of the Parliament. As you know, committees often spend substantial time scrutinising primary legislation, but there is often a great deal of frustration at the lack of clarity and detail in a bill and at what the Government’s intentions are. Committees often spend a great deal of time speculating on what they think that the Government will do when it comes to the secondary legislation, to the extent that that is, I would argue, hindering the scrutiny process.

One suggestion that has been put to the committee is to enable framework bills to contain duties to consult stakeholders and report on their views to Parliament when it is considering secondary legislation. What is your view on the suggestion that we enhance the scrutiny process for secondary legislation?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Katy Clark

A number of witnesses have suggested that draft regulations should be published alongside framework legislation. What is your view on that? Would that be possible in some situations?