Seòmar agus comataidhean

I would quickly like to put on record my appreciation for yesterday’s trip to the prison and to thank the official who answered so many questions. It was fascinating. Seeing the new building alongside the old one showed the contrast quite well. It is also worth putting on record our appreciation for the staff. There is a board up in the new prison that shows that some members of staff have more than 40 years of service, with others having 20 or 30.

It is also worth noting that, over the years, many women took their own lives at Cornton Vale.

I pretty much repeat that, but I also want to understand what is expected of us today. What are our options? I am still not entirely clear.

There is a lot in here, and I am sure that colleagues will cover parts that I do not. In respect of the assessment of the new HMP Stirling and the two new community custody units for women, during our visit to the prison yesterday, we were told that the University of Glasgow had just been awarded a contract to conduct that assessment work. It might be that the minister’s response was written prior to that being known, but it might be worth exploring further what the terms of the process are, when it is likely to conclude and so on. I assume that it will not begin until July, as that is when HMP Stirling opens.

On the numbers of young people in secure accommodation, I cannot remember what we asked. If we only asked about numbers, then the information on page 5 of the response deals with it. However, I thought that we had perhaps asked more about the funding arrangements. From the evidence that we heard, when the provision to send young people into secure accommodation rather than prison comes into force, that will put a greater strain on bed numbers, which are limited. If I understand the situation correctly, the fact that others elsewhere in the UK are paying more for those beds might have an impact in relation to where the funding would come from to subsidise the policy in Scotland.

I will be quick. I have some specific questions about in-cell telephones, which are referred to in the letter dated 26 April. The letter says that the relevant work in all establishments should be completed by the end of April, which was last month. It would be useful to know whether that happened.

The context is also important. We know that more than £4 million was spent on providing mobile phones initially during Covid, but we also know that that was abused on more than 7,000 different occasions by more than 4,000 prisoners. Those phones were also used in the commission of some serious crimes.

My questions are about the cost of in-cell telephony. Will it replace the mobile phones or will the two types of phone run in tandem? I think that it is safe to assume that it will replace the mobile phones, but the letter does not state that. If it is the latter, how much will it cost to run both schemes? Crucially, given the problems with the mobile phones that we were told would not happen but did happen, what measures is the SPS taking to ensure that the in-cell telephony will not be abused in the same way?

Are we finishing up, or can we refer to the other letters?

Good morning. I share the convener’s view that the bill is absolutely welcome. It has long been clear that Companies House can be abused by criminals and that it is not some abstract concept involving only overseas individuals or regimes; it matters here in Scotland. In fact, it is quite common to find multiple Companies House entries for individuals who are trying to hide their pasts or mask the true ownership of companies, and that includes individuals who are involved in high-end organised crimes, such as the drugs trade or VAT fraud. Therefore, it is all to be welcomed.

However, to be frank, the legislative consent motion has come to us as a committee at fairly short notice. It is highly complex. Even trying to read the report that we received last night was quite a challenge. I will try to bring it back to some simple questions. My opening question would be: given that the UK Government published this bill in September 2022, what has been the delay in getting the LCM to us?

My next question is whether we have reached the end of the road with this process. If we do not agree to the LCM today, is there an option for us to put it on ice? Is there still room for negotiation between the Scottish Government and the UK Government?

This might be more of a procedural point for the clerks, but if the committee does not support the legislative consent motion today, would it be competent or feasible for us to revisit it? Would we have time to do so?

It is not so much the numbers, which are fluid; it is more to do with the inevitability of more Scottish spaces being required but less being paid for them. The providers have already given evidence to the effect that that will have an impact on their viability.

To come back to what Stephen Imrie suggested, it could be that there is nothing to worry about—there probably is nothing to worry about—but, given the complexity and the last-minute nature of the process, it would be nice if we could follow the suggestion to agree in principle but have the option to revisit the matter once the negotiations have concluded.