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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 10 May 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

On the point about juries being unable to reach a verdict, the most recent research—which is, I think, from New Zealand and dates from 2000—talks about a hung jury rate of 8.7 per cent, which is quite significant. If the bill does not include the ability to have a retrial, should there be some robust post-legislative scrutiny of the impact, which would require the Government to revisit that particular issue?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

Interestingly, the Scottish Office estimated in 1994 that, if the possibility of having a hung jury were introduced into Scots law, in line with practice in England, the number of such verdicts annually would be in single figures. So, on the basis of that research, it does not seem to be a huge issue.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

Yes.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

Good point.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

So, they were all willing participants. One thing that differs in that situation from that of real jurors is the sense that I get, anecdotally, that most real jurors are rather reluctant, but I guess that there is nothing that you can do about that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

It contains quite a significant chapter on jury sizes and the issue of majority versus unanimity. This is a brief summary, but in England, Wales, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, the United States and Canada, a jury of 12 is typical. The chapter describes Scotland as being very peculiar, having 15 jurors, and because of the other issues that we have touched on. In almost all of those other jurisdictions, a majority is either 10 or 11 of 12, with various other considerations sometimes coming into play, such as the seriousness of the offence or the length of time that has been spent considering and not being able to reach unanimity.

In response to what is being proposed in the bill on Scotland reducing its jury size from 15 people to 12 people, and on the verdict being reached by eight out of 12 people, the Faculty of Advocates criminal bar association said:

“The inevitable consequence of Scotland adopting a majority of eight from twelve would be an international communication that Scotland places less value on protecting its citizens accused of crime than any and every other nation with a jury system.”

That is a very strong thing to say. I note that, in your submission to us—and you have touched on it verbally, as well—you welcome the majority of eight of 12, but not unconditionally; you said that somewhat tentatively, and you also said that a judgment call needs to be made. Now that you are here, what is your judgment on the ideal number?

11:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

Has either of you been a juror in the past?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

I find the insight into the not proven verdict fascinating and helpful to our considerations. The committee has struggled to find legal practitioners who support the abolition of the verdict to give evidence. There is very strong opposition to the proposal. I also get the sense from speaking to different people that they seem to accept that the battle has perhaps been lost. Can you give us any sense of how significant the opposition is and what continues to motivate that, given the direction of travel?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

Is the book still available?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

It is lengthy.