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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 May 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Russell Findlay

That is the point. Why not?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Russell Findlay

The faculty’s written submission says that the “system ... ostensibly works”, yet, last week, the head of Rape Crisis Scotland told us that it is

“obvious to anyone—guilty men are regularly walking free”.—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 6 December 2023; c 9.]

Do you think that rapists are walking free, or is she wrong? That is for Ronnie Renucci.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Russell Findlay

In its submission, the Crown Office points to the Scottish jury manual, which Mr Murray referred to earlier. It provides guidance to judges on directing juries. It says that, if a juror is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt,

“your duty is to convict”.

Otherwise, they would need to deliver a verdict of not guilty or not proven. The Crown is saying that, if the not proven verdict is scrapped, it is not clear why a juror who was not convinced of guilt would be considered more likely to return a guilty verdict. That appears to be at odds with your collective position: that jurors might be forced to return a verdict that they are not comfortable with or of which they are not convinced. Can you, perhaps, explain that anomaly or reasoning? That question is for Mr Renucci or anyone who might care to take it.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Russell Findlay

Two weeks ago, Professor Fiona Leverick and Eamon Keane told us, to my surprise, that they opposed the eight out of 12 proposition. They believed we should have what is typical of international jurisdictions: either unanimity or 10 or 11 out of 12. I was surprised by their position. Given that their position is consistent with that of the legal profession, do you think that the Scottish Government should perhaps rethink the eight out of 12?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Russell Findlay

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Russell Findlay

Is it not the case, though, that, as things stand, we cannot find out the breakdown of the jury numbers?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Russell Findlay

I find it extraordinary that we appear to be flying blind. This is critical, and we do not have that basic data.

The bill’s policy memorandum says:

“jurors may be more likely to convict”

with the two-verdict system. The Scottish Solicitors Bar Association says that removing the not proven verdict would “undoubtedly”—that is the word used—result in more convictions. However, the Crown Office submission says that the 2019 jury research suggests that the opposite would happen and that jurors would be potentially less likely to convict. I wonder whether the bill is progressing on the false assumption that removing the not proven verdict will lead to an increased rate of conviction when, in fact, it is the opposite. Do you have any views on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Russell Findlay

We are being asked to be mind readers of juries when, in fact, there is no real reason why academia and the legal profession could not have conducted some meaningful research, or so I believe.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Russell Findlay

No. Okay—thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Russell Findlay

So, who has the responsibility to fix it?