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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 May 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Does that refer to the error in this order?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Russell Findlay

I presume that you tell complainers when a final decision has been made. Is that a matter of routine?

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Bill

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Yes, I do—thank you, convener.

The LCMs relate to the UK Criminal Justice Bill. There is reference in the submission from the Scottish Government to a House of Commons debate on 11 January this year, and it says that the Scottish Government rejected clauses 11 and 12 of the UK bill, which relate to causing people to commit online self-harm. There have been tragic cases of young people harming themselves and even taking their own lives, having been coerced and manipulated by others to do so.

I see from Hansard that the application of the offence in Scotland was rejected by the Scottish Government. Given the importance of a consistent UK-wide approach to some of the other measures that have been adopted, as the Scottish Government’s submission notes, can you explain the thinking behind that particular decision?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Russell Findlay

In 2018, your predecessor, Kate Frame, raised concerns about the case of an innocent man who had been wrongly locked up after the police failed to check his identity. Police Scotland recorded that as a quality-of-service complaint. In a letter to the committee before my time here, Ms Frame said that Police Scotland’s handling of the case

“suggests an endeavour to keep matters hidden.”

Other witnesses have told us about Police Scotland keeping serious alleged crimes in-house and not sharing them with the Crown or the PIRC. Many of those same people—whose evidence I am sure that you will have heard—have absolutely no faith in the PIRC in respect of their complaints. Since those days, can Police Scotland now be trusted to fully disclose such cases as they should?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Section 5 of the bill seeks to broaden the PIRC’s functions. Your organisation has commented that that

“would significantly impact on PIRC’s budget and ability to operate.”

I note, too, that in respect of section 12, your organisation has commented that, as a result of the right to call in complaints, the PIRC might

“become overwhelmed”

and that there would be

“further resource implications”.

We have heard from other witnesses, including the Scottish Police Federation, that the financial cost of the bill has already risen according to the financial memorandum, and that they believe that the cost will be higher still. What is the PIRC’s latest official assessment of the cost?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Russell Findlay

The language used by the inspector was that freezing cases was “open to abuse” and was being used inappropriately “for no discernible reason”. The report also states that CAAPD

“had developed an unhealthy and misguided approach to managing its targets”,

and that it

“masked the reality of what was happening”

and misled everyone from the general public right through to the Lord Advocate.

I understand that you have put that right. Given that report, and the fact that we have heard so much evidence from witnesses about a lack of trust, do you believe that the public can trust the data that is coming from CAAPD?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Russell Findlay

There was another case subsequent to that one in which a female police officer from the Moray area made multiple internal allegations of an employment nature and a criminal nature, which were kept in-house and withheld from the relevant authorities. That officer has also been publicly critical of the PIRC. Although the PIRC unblocked that case by identifying and investigating those allegations, which, up until then, had not been done, the subsequent report into the entire case has not been published. Can you explain why that would be?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Russell Findlay

I would just be interested to know whether, given the increased use of diversion from prosecution within the broader criminal justice system, we are seeing that mirrored in the cases that you deal with.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Russell Findlay

That leads me on to my next question. We have heard evidence of cases in which complainers, whether members of the public or police officers, believed that what they had imparted had subsequently been shared with CAAPD—as is right and proper—but that had not been the case. Are you confident that the situation has improved, now that a lot more scrutiny is being applied to those particular cases and the wider issues, or can the legislation itself be improved to ensure that that does happen?

12:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Russell Findlay

One of the non-legislative recommendations of the Angiolini review was that the PIRC should investigate all on-duty allegations of assault made against police officers. That has been happening since October 2021 and it has had a significant impact on your workload. Can you quantify what that has meant for the organisation in typical numbers of cases or as a proportion of your workload?