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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 May 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

Is there not a flipside to that? If people were restricted in their everyday movements, they had less opportunity to commit crimes.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

Okay.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

Okay. I guess that we can speak to Ms Medhurst about that next week.

The submission from the Prison Governors Association (Scotland) to the committee speaks of the risk of more violence, drug taking, deaths by suicide and drugs, mass indiscipline and loss of control, and prison riots in the 1980s and 1990s are referred to. One line of the submission that really stuck out was:

“Any of these core factors can be the spark that ignites people residing in prison to say ‘no more’.”

It seems to me that you were trying to tell us about the real threat of a return to the sort of incidents that you referred to. Is there not a slight risk in using such language that you are almost signalling to prisoners that such an outcome is in some way inevitable, if not justified?

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

Another issue is the nature of those who are in prison. It is quite hard for the committee to establish a breakdown of the types of offending and so on. However, some recent research took a snapshot on a particular date—2 May—and found that, of the 8,220 prisoners who were in custody on that day, just over 74 per cent were convicted of, or were awaiting trial for, violent crimes.

I will not go into all the details of that research. However, it showed that, although somewhere in the region of 400 prisoners—which is a very small percentage; fewer than 5 per cent—were in prison for what, on the face of it, looked like minor offences, we do not know the full picture and the background of each offender.

Despite everything that has been said about too many people being sent to prison and the fact that Mr Fairlie is on the record as saying that the use of remand is “ridiculously high”, a snapshot such as the one used in that research would suggest, as far as the public are concerned, that remand is actually a proportionate and reasonable use of prison.

Do you have any thoughts on that? That might be a question for Wendy Sinclair-Gieben.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

Can you give me any form of estimate or guess?

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

One of our concerns was that that approach would incentivise someone who is on electronically monitored bail to delay their court proceedings, which would cause further trauma to victims and witnesses. The offender would know that if there were eventually to be a prison sentence, they would have been able to chip away at their time served. Is that still a likelihood?

10:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

It is in everyone’s interests that the process can be trusted, both by the judicial office-holders and potential complainers.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

Yes. The emergency release proposal has been signposted for the best part of a year now. Just last summer, the governor of Scotland’s biggest prison talked about a catastrophic incident and said that it was a question of when, not if. A succession of senior SPS people have issued similar warnings.

In the letter that the committee received from the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs last week, she said that the Scottish Government was working on information-sharing agreements between the Scottish Prison Service and four prescribed groups. Those groups include Kate Wallace’s organisation—Victim Support Scotland.

Kate, earlier, you said that you have not even seen a draft of such an agreement. Despite the fact that we have had a year of knowing the direction that we are heading in, your organisation—and, I presume, the other three organisations concerned—are still pretty much in the dark. Is that correct?

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

However, the prisoners who are released could include other people who have committed acts of violence and other serious crimes. You are saying that, at that point, victims would have to approach one of the four organisations—I am referring to Kate Wallace’s organisation and the other three—and ask for information, and then you would need to go to the authorities to ask for that information.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Russell Findlay

Will it be in place for some—a fraction—of them?