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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 May 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 3 November 2021

Russell Findlay

Are those figures for financial years?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 3 November 2021

Russell Findlay

Do you just have to deal with those as part of your overall budget?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 3 November 2021

Russell Findlay

Good morning to you both, and welcome. I begin by echoing my colleague Jamie Greene’s opening comments.

The level of the backlog of criminal cases is startling and the figures that you have provided today really bring that home. There is perhaps a public perception that you work primarily or entirely on criminal cases, whereas you are also responsible for investigating a large number of deaths that are not homicides. The COPFS submission refers to a year-on-year increase from just under 11,000 death reports to almost 16,000, and many of those will be Covid deaths.

I have read about a Covid investigation unit, although I do not know whether it is called that or whether it is a stand-alone thing. Forgive me for my question being a bit woolly. Will you expand on the nature of that unit and the challenges, which I would guess are primarily financial, that arise from that huge increase in the numbers? Will you also say whether every Covid death merits the same type of investigation or whether it depends on the individual circumstances? That question perhaps drifts away from finance, but I suppose that it relates to the financial cost that Covid is bringing to the Crown.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 3 November 2021

Russell Findlay

Perhaps it is also fair to say that the budget for that unit is based on the entire budget and what the unit requires to do its job. There are not really stand-alone figures.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 3 November 2021

Russell Findlay

I welcome both witnesses. Teresa Medhurst touched on absences and said that sickness levels have fluctuated and have not reached the levels of 2019. I appreciate and respect the officers in your service, who do an incredible job. In the past few weeks, I have heard from a number of them, as you will be aware. In effect, some have become whistleblowers and have talked about significant absence levels. The levels across the board might not be those that have previously been seen, but are there hotspots in particular establishments that have high absence levels?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 3 November 2021

Russell Findlay

You said that some establishments are back to the two-shift system.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 3 November 2021

Russell Findlay

Okay. I have a final question on a different topic. Much has been said about the introduction of mobile phones and the cost of that. I do not have the figure in front of me but, off the top of my head, I think that it was £3 million or thereabouts. I understand that the private prisons chose a different model whereby they have phones that can be used communally attached to the wall and, as a result, they have not had the security issues that we have seen with the model that was adopted elsewhere.

Given that that money has been spent and the phones are in circulation, is there any discussion about perhaps phasing that out and moving towards the other, apparently more secure model?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 3 November 2021

Russell Findlay

I have a very specific question. With regard to the £35.3 million that has gone out in both cases, I understand that there was an indication that there was a commitment that the Crown would pay tax if the payment resulted in there being a tax liability for those litigants. Do you know whether that has happened? Has the money been paid yet? Do the litigants know whether they are going to have a tax liability?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 3 November 2021

Russell Findlay

I will move on to a more specific issue. I am mindful that there are still on-going matters in relation to the Rangers cases, but there has been a lot of speculation in the media about the overall figures. I am not asking you to predict outcomes, but can you tell us where we are right now on pay-outs that have left and are no longer live?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 3 November 2021

Russell Findlay

Yes. Obviously, the fatal accident inquiry backlog is as significant as the criminal case backlog and the other deaths backlog. There have been significant reports indicating what appears to be a rise in cases of deaths in custody. Have you seen any discernible rise in deaths in custody, and what are the budgetary implications of that?