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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 May 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Russell Findlay

So, if the cross-border stuff is removed from the equation, Scotland will have capacity. However, that then brings into play the problem of cost, because the payment for cross-border places is 35 per cent higher. The Scottish Government will have to find the money to fund those places at a higher rate, will it not, to make St Mary’s more sustainable?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Russell Findlay

And the bill will allow for them to remain in secure accommodation until they are 19—or is it 21?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Russell Findlay

Thank you very much.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Russell Findlay

Thank you, convener. I did not realise that we had enough time for it.

We heard evidence about young people under the age of 18 who are in police custody. The bill would give them the option for no parental contact to be made. I asked about this issue in the previous session. Has any consideration been given to those children potentially being subject to exploitation, whether by someone who does not have their best interests at heart or by organised crime? Does the bill include any way to address that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Russell Findlay

I congratulate you both on your new appointments.

At our 29 March meeting, we heard evidence that secure accommodation costs around four times as much as prison and that Scotland currently has 84 secure places, with the largest provider of those being St Mary’s Kenmure. Jim Shields of St Mary’s said that funding right now was precarious and that it needed certainty; Professor Lorraine Johnstone said that, at times, St Mary’s has relied on cross-border placements to ensure that it is sustainable. We heard that some English local authorities pay 35 per cent more for a place than the Scottish Government pays.

In the eventuality of more secure accommodation being needed, do you have any projections of how much more will be needed, how much it will cost and whether the financial memorandum has properly factored in the concerns that were expressed at our 29 March meeting?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Russell Findlay

Could the bill potentially include a right or a requirement for the children’s panel to inform victims of outcomes?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Russell Findlay

Okay. I know that such cases are incredibly rare, but certain young people do commit extremely serious crimes. Indeed, I can think back to one such case not long ago, in which a 16-year-old raped and murdered a six-year-old girl. In such cases, the individual will be sent to secure accommodation. I wonder whether you accept that, sometimes, in those most rare, extreme cases, such a course of action might not be appropriate. Should the bill have some mechanism to allow for those kinds of cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Russell Findlay

I am glad that I asked that question—the answer was all ready for me.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Russell Findlay

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Russell Findlay

So, October was not the final word. Is that process still on-going?